That’s what’s so confusing, especially since there are so many different manufacturers/versions of the Serge module.

But what would be the worst case scenario here? Just some unwanted clipping or everything going up in smoke?

Does anyone have the R*S Triple Waveshaper? I was building hastily and used a 100k for the +1 pot when it should have been 10k. Now, it’s all assembled. Replacing with the 10k would be a nightmare given all the bananas are soldered in.

What would you do? I could get my iron in to solder a 10k resistor parallel with the pot, but that’d give me almost a reverse log taper. That doesn’t seem ideal.

Can someone make a recording of a simple saw through just their +1? Trying to ascertain if it’s worth the trouble of trying to fix.

The Serge will not go up in smoke, it will clip. Double Knot and certain Buchla 200e will because of digital stuff and unipolar power.
It’s not confusing in practice. +/- 5V except the hot out on the SSG. Serge modules in general have attenuverters on CV ins and I always recommend a mixer processor in the system for anything that doesn’t (plus who doesn’t want to mix CVs?). Early Serge didn’t even have dedicated V/Oct, that’s not what it’s about.

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Hopefully of interest to this thread. I’ve just released a collection of patch programming studies for a very old serge system.

“Studies in analog process-oriented patch programming. Composed and recorded March 16-21, 2016 in residence at the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Serge modular synthesizer c.1974-76 (mislabeled 1969) courtesy of the National Music Centre. No sequencers. No keyboards. No overdubs.”

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serge only, no effects added. not finished, not perfect.

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since others are posting, I’ll share a recent collection: two non-generative compositions for serge system (and one for pulsar synthesis)

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With this bit of extra time over the coming weeks / months I’m hoping to finish something that has been a dream of mine since I first saw photos of serge systems.

In the last couple years I’ve gone through a large R*S system in both eurorack and 4U, and then I moved to STS panels. But there was something I could NEVER get my hands on: old school black reverse panels. By some flip of fate the first photos that really grabbed my attention were of the Black Serge:

https://www.serge.synth.net/gallery/djbf/index.html

Ramping up to that venture I’m replacing some of the panels I already own.

Here’s a black “animal” style panel:

Incorporating things I liked about STS, R*S and LW layouts to make shorting bars make sense as patch simplifiers wherever possible without straying too far from the classic look. Humming and hawing over lots of little possible mods but trying to keep it relatively faithful.

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Another technical question: I just tried building a very, very rudimentary sequencer using an Arduino. So basically I’m just plugging the Arduino’s PWM out into one of the Serge’s CV inputs and that’s it. Sounds very lo-fi and digital because of the aliasing, but it’s just an experiment anyways.

Now I’ve read several times that external devices have to be connected to the Serge’s ground, which makes sense. However, when I just connect my Arduino’s positive PWM out to the Serge’s in without connecting the ground of both devices, it still works.

So why is the ground connection necessary here? Can any of the both devices get damaged without the connection or is it just about avoidong noise/hum?

In my experience, if they share a ground via their power supplies (like on the same surge protector) it can work. I don’t know why that’s the case, but I don’t need to ground my format jumbler if I patch my serge to my 0coast.

I may be totally incorrect about this though…

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Ah okay, that could be the reason. So the whole ground connection thing is not about protection or anything like that, but about getting current flowing at all? So using a battery for powering the Arduino wouldn’t work here?

Hi everyone, first time posting in this thread.

Been slowly getting more curious about the 4U
format and was wondering how you feel about the CGS/Voltron systems? Seems like it’s a more affordable entry point than going *RS

I’m looking to build an 8U system that’s focused on feedback/texture/spatialization and avoiding sequencing - considering the “bocgs bog” and a “voltron 6” though 3 DUSG’s in such a small system might be excessive and i’m not too sure what the reverb will be like on the V6…

Wondering if anyone’s had experience with the quality of the full diy kits in terms of components?
Do they stand up to what *RS is providing with their kits?

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It definitely can be. The important thing to understand about voltage is that voltage is always relative - it only makes sense to talk about a voltage difference between two points. Within a given circuit when we say “this output is at 5V” this is just shorthand for “the difference in electrical potential between this output and ground is five volts”, where ‘ground’ is some designated reference point in the circuit.

But whenever you have two different pieces of equipment that don’t have a physical connection between their ground points, it’s possible (even likely) that there’s some potential difference between what one device calls ground and what the other calls ground. That potential difference could be almost 0 volts, a few volts (causing patching confusion), or 5,000 volts (causing damage). If there’s a large voltage between grounds for two pieces of equipment then it’s possible that lot of current could flow when you connect them, if there’s only a small difference they could behave normally. Without electrical contact between the ground points of your different devices, you just don’t know, and the potential difference between grounds could vary over time.

Devices may share a ground this way if they use the earth ground provided by the power strip / wall socket. For DC power supplies (e.g. wall warts or switcher bricks) this may not be the case and two DC supplies plugged in to the same strip may not have the same DC ground on their output (barrel connector or what have you). Using a battery, the battery’s ground terminal is also unrelated to ground from your wall-plugged power supplies.

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For the most part, it’s because ground is ground, no matter where they connect. That’s why when you have two banana synths connected to the same mixer, you don’t need to ground them together. The ground is connected via the sleeves of their output cables. Sometimes it’s better to have a dedicated ground between devices, but synths don’t seem too sensitive to that.

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A question about Random Source eurorack Res EQ builds: I’ve got everything together to build it and I’m just trying to decide on what resistors to go with. To quote the build doc:

Resistors RG1 and RG2 set the maximum gain level of each of the two inputs. 100k will make the input knobs pure attenuators, i.e. full CW is 100% of the input signal (unity gain). 75k will allow a maximum amplification of +33% (100k/75k = 133.3%), i.e. unity gain will be at around 2 o’clock position of the knob. Similarly, 68k will allow a maximum amplification of +47%. Depending on the input signal’s level, this can be used to add distortion / clipping before entering the EQ.

Any one have thoughts about these three options? I’m leaning towards 75K but want to make sure there’s still enough space for detail/headroom in attenuation before it passes unity. One use planed is within a feedback system in a spring tank but I don’t want to loose clarity.

I used 100k and still felt there was a slight amount of gain. In hindsight, I wish I had just added sockets (at least on one) so I could try different values

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I recently built a BOG panel and have been loving it. 3 DUSGs is not overkill at all! I wish I had three! I also recently put together a random source sequencer. The quality of the RS boards and panels is very, very high. Thick, multilayered boards. With the CGS, the boards vary in quality depending on the module. I’d say most are good quality with a couple being single sided (harder to rework without damaging or lifting a trace). My LFO and VC Divider boards had damaged traces (manufacturing errors I guess) that we’re easily fixed but took some time to diagnose. It’s a get what you pay for situation, but CGS isn’t crappy, just more economic and requires more time. I really enjoy the BOG configuration. I’m also pretty sure that Elby has recently done new versions of some of the boards, making them double sided. You will be a winner either way if you go with CGS, Random Source, or both!

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i guess having 3 dusg’s isn’t a bad problem to have… with the complex osc’s and everything else there’s a lot of modulation possibilities…i would like some more filters though…good to know about the manufacturing errors, let’s hope that’s been dealt with. yeah the *rs stuff is so well made but at half the price i think building a few cgs panels might be the way to go…we’ll see. it’s a pretty serious project but there’s no better time than now to dive into something like that. what’s your opinion on the boats/power they provide?

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This is not necessarily true, and in my experience my banana systems on separate power supplies absolutely need to be grounded together to behave properly. Your statement assumes that you are using some sort of TRS output that includes a ground to the mixer, which is not generally the case with many Serge and banana systems, and the banana cables themselves don’t carry ground.

When I use my two Serge cases (separate power supplies) together I absolutely have to connect the grounds on their power supplies or I get wonky CV all over the place. Same when interfacing with Bugbrand or with my Deluge CV outputs on 3.5mm jacks. Unless I connect ground voltages can be really unpredictable.

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You need to get into the Serge headspace. :slight_smile:

The DUSG can be a complex oscillator, filter, envelope, lfo, modulation source, sort-of VCA, and so much more. I have 5 DUSG’s in my system and it is still often not enough IMO. I’d actually rather have fewer dedicated oscillators and more DUSGs.

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I built a Quad Slope in eurorack, it is THE most versatile module out there. Maths is basically a ripoff of the DUSG.

You say you want more filters: DUSG can be a filter as well. Just plug your audio to the input and adjust the slopes and monitor the output.

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