#959

I’m in a similar position and I had a good offer for a 2nd hand RS Mantra but I’ve decided to go 3U eurorack instead from RS with tiptop stackcables. The possibilities of adding a few 3U fx modules and the fact that I can record my experiments on a Morphagene and manipulate them back and forth while I’m live patching is extremely exciting to me. But from my experience with the 3U Serge modules I already have: deeply experimental masterpieces that will last a lifetime of adventures. Don’t start with a particular sound in mind cause you’ll get lost. Start with assembling a good system and then start exploring and learning. Let the system take you where you’ve never been before.

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#960

I considered the euro ones as well, I had a friend that was selling at handful at once and I almost bought them, but I’m glad I didn’t and waited to find 4u. I honestly have almost completely shed euro GAS, and it feels good. I moved all of my effects to ableton Live, and the granular and looping options with MaxForLive far surpass anything I found in Euro, IMO. I’m keeping my synthesis analog and the digital in the computer, seems to be working at the moment.

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#961

FWIW i too was in the same position as many of y’all above a few years ago…started in euro, got caught up in the gas, and luckily fell into R*S Euroserge as part of that. The sound got me hooked, and then the learning about patch programming etc coupled with my waning love affair with euro convinced me to abandon euro and commit to 4U banana jacks.

I will editorialize that as someone who at one point had almost 12U worth of eurorack R*S serge modules and plenty of tip-top stackables, it REALLY is NOT THE SAME as patching on a 4U system with bananas. I can’t intellectually explain why, other than to say that it just doesnt fell the same. and, I dont regret abandoning euro for one second. only regret is that I havent yet sold all of my euro stuff (will still hold onto some sequencing modules probably and mannequins and monome modules to help interface)

now, in terms of which way to go, I think as a beginner, going with a fully “realized” full panel thats already been well thought out is the way to go. this means probably an RS La Bestia or Mantra panel, or LW sing to me Panel (or other current "voice"panel he may be offering) or other used STS voice type panels that often show up used. I say this because unlike eurorack, no one module in serge necessarily fills one role so the approach to putting together a panel will probably be different than what youre used to, and you might hin somehintg like, oh, i only have a VCFQ/VCFS module, I need another filter, but after experience reealize that your SSH can serve diltereing duties, or DUSG can filter, or etc etc etc. The point is that The full panels dont have everything, but they are excellent for learning and you can still make great stuff with it. Then once you learn what you cant do with the panel, you can go back and design a custom panel or build out a 4x4 system, or whatever.

Anywho. my two cents. just to say, go for it. you wont regret. theres no wrong choices. happy to answer any questions you might have

3 Likes
#962

Thanks for this, it helps to put things into perspective. I definitely feel spoiled by patching with banana cables. There’s a tactile experience and flow there that eurorack can’t touch.

My eurorack setup has (unsurprisingly) changed considerably over the past couple years but I’ve also settled on a 7U case that’s based around teletype & mannequins with some make noise effects/processing stuff. I also got a shared system recently so between that and the gaggle of ciat-lonbarde instruments I have I really do appreciate working with single manufacturer systems that are designed to work together.

In the interest of paring down my eurorack and my growing interest in banana synths, I’d been considering selling the shared system in lieu of either a buchla easel or a serge panel. Based on my experience with cl and the double knot I think serge is the way to go, at least for now. It’s a bit of a leap to get a whole panel all at once but I like the idea of working with a self contained system that I won’t be able to change right away.

#963

i found myself in the same boat recently (steamroom admiration and all) and ended up with a la bestia ii after a lot of research. i’m very pleased with it. it’s similar to mantra but has 2 filters (which i’m quite grateful for - the slope sounds incredible and the VCFQ is super useful as a modulation source and pings sound amazing) and NTO instead of the expanded DUSG and the sequencer.

i avoided LW personally because i wanted to avoid opening up the pandoras box of a 4u environment similar to the pokemon experience of eurorack. is it the same? not precisely, but i were i to go down that path i cant say for certain that i wouldnt end up with … a 4u ornament and crime or something haha

so yeah my vote is for la bestia (or STS animal - similar flavors but considerably more expensive). im planning on adding an edelweiss or mixed R*S 4x4 boat in 2021.

4 Likes
#964

Haha totally valid concern! I’m not too worried about that with a full (pre-designed) panel though. The reason the LW Sing to Me panel is on my radar is because it’s very similar to the la bestia but with changes I’d probably make myself. I guess the decision I’m grappling with now is whether I want to go for the pure serge experience or inject it with a little buchla flavor (which does very much interest me).

1 Like
#965

totally. sing… is surely a great panel. i avoided it because, as i think i mentioned upthread here, i wanted an archetypal serge experience (despite being anything but a purist usually), the precision/sound/modulation capacity of the NTO etc

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#966

crossposting from earlier in the thread, but these have been really helpful resources. lots more out there. dusg plus just friends and cold mac is ridiculous and keeping me in euro for the time being

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#967

I can say, just having sold an Easel Command to go Serge, that the Easel is quite limiting especially if you are coming from a Shared System. It’s a great synth, worthy of praise of course, but after coming from eurorack i found myself constantly making work arounds as far as patching goes. I’d definitely go Serge if you are used to flexibility.

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#968

4u ornament and crime? thats ridiculous…

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#969

  1. @loudestwarning’s work is so, so beautiful. This is a stunning example. Some wonderful ways of controlling things here – I googled the name, very clever indeed.

  2. Modular Addict has 4u o_C panel/PCBs in LW format, been thinking of getting one for my second 4u project. Do you find yourself using it a lot?

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#970

@wheelersounds I use it a ton now, but it was a favorite of mine in euro format too. it took me a while to realize that I wanted to use it in 4u format. When I made the switch I first got a La Bestia II, followed by an Edelweiss II panel, and learned to patch with those two panels exclusively. Theres plenty to learn obviously, and I had lots of fun patching and making music, so at first I didn’t miss it or find the need for it. But after a while i did miss the many functions I had grown accustomed to that the OC can provide, and I love the NLC triple sloth, so i decided to create a minibox with LW/charlie’s help and add a few super useful utility modules like a preamp and slope detector.

that being said, I’m glad I went with the full panel first and learned to patch that way rather than create a custom panel with a 4U OC stuck in there because it was familiar to me. I look at the minibox as more of a utilitiy auxiliary unit fwiw.

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#971

No offence guys, to each there’s a certain creative flow, but arguments such as “it really is not the same” or “it doesn’t feel the same” are not arguments. There’s a lot going on cognitively when you buy such a wonderful instrument which makes you think that it’s “beter” than anything else. The facts for the 3U vs 4U battle are:

  • The R*S 3U circuits are EXACTLY the same as 4U.
  • Design in 3U leaves more space for hands-on playability.
  • 3U has more attenuators.
  • 4U boats look incredible, more reliable power source, thinner. Size is as a 84hp eurorack.
  • 4U is almost twice as expensive.
  • Patching with banana’s is obviously better because there’s no loss of voltage through the grounding. That can offer more precision on your patches.
    My decision to go 3U was based on a certain creative idea that I cannot achieve at this moment with 4U. Mostly recording sounds and process them further (Morphagene). It was also an economic decision, for my Serge based 2x104hp eurorack system I would spent around 2500€ for something that will cost me around 7000€ in 4U and without the fx and processors in 3U.
    The argument that 3U is too open and has too many options and you lose yourself in endless changing of the system is not really valid for me, because it’s up to us, not the 3U system, to make coherent systems and stay focused. Cheers!
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#972

As someone just starting with the R*S Euro modules, those are pretty much my thoughts as well. Very happy and having loads of fun learning and exploring. An easy and relatively economical path, especially for someone who already has Euro gear. (As if my 208c wasn’t already enough: a lifetime of exploration in that, too.)

#973

Yeah agree, its a preference thing.
For me I was deliberatively making a choice to move away from Eurorack because having an unlimited amount of choices in that format is overwhelming and unhealthy for me. I hate going to a restaurant where’s theres too much on the menu, it gives me option paralysis. I love going somewhere where its a nicely curated menu, that’s how I feel about 4u Serge.
Also, the cost thing actually isn’t that big of a difference between euro and 4u… most, if not all, of the 4u R*S stuff has two modules combined in one. When you take a look at it price by price, its fairly close in price, if you are buying used…

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#974

What numbers are you looking at for this? Built single eurorack modules on the random source site seem to be 300-600 euros. Then you need to get a case+power. Seems like they are close in price, if the panels aren’t actually cheaper.

#975

totally agree with you. i was just pointing out my personal taste. i cognitively agree with all the data points you present, and when I look at it objectively i would probably arrive at the same conclusion. the crux of my post was only that, for me, after patching and making my music for me with a 3u euroserge system and doing the same with a 4u serge system, I enjoyed the process and the results more with the 4u system more. and at the end of the day, thats what I do it for :slight_smile: someone else may have the exact opposite experience, and thats awesome too.

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#976

although this wasn’t the primary reason I went to 4U Serge, it was a major driving force that convinced me to leave eurorack (if that makes sense). I felt that staying in the euro ecosystem was just fueling constant GAS and in general feeding a consumerism mindset that I found seeping into other things as well.

4 Likes
#977

With this said, I still have a few euro things that I’m using primarily for controllers out to the 4u: Pressure Points, 0-Ctrl and Marbles.

I’d love to completely go 4u, but I’m seeing barely any choices for control in 4u Serge. All I’ve seen is the TKB, which is ridiculously expensive, and a few of you have mentioned using the 4U TSNM at 12v with good success.

There is nothing like Pressure Points for example, which does exist in 4U Buchla in a bunch of variations. Has anyone ever tried for example running a Buchla 116 at 12v and using with Serge?

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#978

20 characters of 100%

1 Like