#979

Just saw the Crocodile panel has a “Special Timbral Oscillator” with a few differences in the panel from the NTO.

1 Like
#980

This is an interesting observation. I guess when Random Source began, they were in the DIY end of things and the community there had quite a few control options: the Best of CGS SWAMP, the Touch Programmable Sequencer also based on CGS boards, the Vintage Voltron 3, the Human Comparator TKB kit, and probably others I can’t remember. Your post made me realise that those things are less visible and less available now (though Elby sells kits for the VV3 and the SWAMP) and there is the whole non-DIY community too.

I just remembered that there is a new addition to the sequencer line-up available DIY or built from Finlay Shakespeare of Future Sound Systems: https://bpoot.company.site/CGS-Serge-Programmer-sequencer-for-modular-synthesizer-systems-p260159180
This is his take on the Serge programmer, using the circuit that Serge published in Synapse I believe.

#981

Yeah, while I do see a few more sequencers it’d be cool to have a simple touch plate module that wasn’t ridiculously expensive.

I just found this:

I might do something like this perhaps. Or maybe find a way to mount the Pressure Points on a piece of Aluminum thats 4u.

#982

Maybe this will be the impetus I need to finish designing the touch module I was working on in the summer… Maybe.

4 Likes
#983

Logan over at Low-Gain Electronics recently released this:

And here’s a video from Todd Barton demonstrating it with the 73-75 Serge:

2 Likes
#984

45 characters of “I liked Little, Big too!”

I reckon I’ll state the obvious by pointing out that convincing someone that 4u Serge is a better option than 3u Serge and elaborating on one’s preference are two different things. With that said, I started with some STS m-class and eventually added a full STS panel before selling most of them for the mix of STS, R*S and Loudest Warning I have now. The benefits of working solely with STS initially were immediate:

  1. Everything worked; in Eurorack, I’d encounter disparate voltage thresholds for triggers, gates, etc, ranges of outputs, and very frequently I couldn’t use modules interchangeably without having to attenuate something, amplify something else, or invert a third thing. Some modules just didn’t work together at all. If anyone with an STS Serge ever fried a module by plugging some other STS module into it, I’d be really surprised. This benefit is diluted with other 4u manufacturers (I spent a fair bit of money paying my Guy to research why my Stroh modules’ EOC outputs wouldn’t gate Serge modules and fix them, eg), format ports (like Mutable Rings and Clouds in R*S format) and DIY or third-party builders. On the 3u side, it’s mitigated by staying with one manufacturer, but there are few I’ve seen who’ve done that in Eurorack, while it’s relatively doable in Blacet or BugBrand.

  2. I was interested in relatively low-level analogue synthesis. I didn’t want screens or “do everything” modules, as appealing as those surely are to a lot of users. Maybe Ornament and Crime will blow up in 4u. For me, that’s an unwelcome focus-shift; it would be the only screen in my rig. That’s not to say that one can’t just use similar modules in Euro or similar. The Mattson Mini Modular has really smart analogue designs - some of them unique when they came out 12, 13 years ago. If they can run at 12v, then I’ll probably try to port some of to 4u. Speaking of mini…

  3. 3u for me can be way too cramped. It’s one of the reasons I didn’t go all-in on BugBrand, which I friggin’ love, but it was hard for me to toggle a switch on the VCO, eg without setting it wildly out of tune. 5u’s a little too big, though I have one poorly laid-out dual 258J that somehow manages to feel cramped. 4u has, by and large, been goldilocks.

  4. (really 3a) I don’t have a lot of flight time with Buchla gear, but I know DB gave fair consideration to ergonomics. The closest thing I have to that is my Stroh rig, and barring one very cramped one-off that Dustin made for me with caveats, that’s just lush. It really does allow a certain muscle memory to take hold.

  5. Sundry stuff: I very much prefer the tactile experience of patching with bananas, though there’s at least one scenario where mults are better and it gets me at least once per session. I like the feeling that I’m working with An Instrument; lots of people say this. Usually that’s doable if you at least have an overarching aesthetic and patching philosophy - 5u and 4u are pretty well-specified, here.

  6. The benefits of “patch-programmability” are overstated, IMHO, but the low-level synthesis is a delight for exploration and problem-solving. Serge - especially CGS designs, Ken Stone gets my thanks here - just lights my brain up.

  7. It’s expensive, though, 4u. Not overpriced, just expensive. I chose to have a withered interior life and few meaningful social relationships.

5 Likes
#985

Low-level analog was it for me too, the range of exploration feels vast when everything is seemingly simple at it’s core. Also second STS being very reliable. I took an STS Animal for a two month long tour throughout the states and Europe, pretty much everything else died on me except that. The care STS put into builds is unlike anything I have seen before.

1 Like
#986

Eurorack is also expensive though? I looked at a 104 hp rack I have in modular grid and it tells me my mannequins stuff + a few things is worth almost $2,700. Add the cost of the case and you’re pretty much in the same territory as a built 4U Serge panel.

2 Likes
#987

FYI I looked at the schematic for Pepper and it seems quite strange. The audio inputs and outputs look as I’d expect (AC coupled amplifiers), but the CV ins and outs look odd. I don’t know what protection the board itself offers, but they just use a potential divider to scale the voltage down (12V->5V) and have no accomodation to block negative voltages (e.g a diode). This means negative voltages, and voltages over 5V can reach the analogue input pins; also no protection seems to be provided to the analogue output pins. I can only assume that the Bela itself has protection on the board. I’m not that familiar with Serge voltages, but assuming it’s also a +/-12V system, what you’d need to do is swap out the panel jacks for banana jacks (losing the normal connections to fixed voltage), and add an extra one for ground connected to the ground net you may be able to replace one of the input ports with a ground port with some board scratching. If the voltages ranges are not +/-12V you have to change the resistor values in the potential dividers.

EDIT: Given the simplicity of the design, if I had a Serge, I’d be more inclined to design a workalike from scratch Vs buying it and hacking the board.

1 Like
#988

2700 USD would give you a pretty serious Doepfer rig. But yeah, Eurorack’s also getting more expensive, but that’s with the addition of digital modules, screens, etc. Mannequins seems awfully specialized and are hardly the only game in town. Your buying choices are more limited in 4u and if you’re getting new, complete products, you’re also factoring in exchange rates, etc.

Let’s put it this way: the new dual PCO module costs 812 Euro - god, I hope that includes VAT - and that’s 984.67 USD today. Does that sound like what you’d pay for a Eurorack equivalent?

#989

I mainly just find the general argument that 4U is more expensive than Eurorack to be subjective to what your goals are. Claims that it’s double the price just don’t hold up unless you’re looking at STS panels. The Elby and 73-75 lines are super affordable. The voice panel from 73-75 costs less than 1k, for example. It would be cheaper to get that than a doepfer rack.

If you DIY all this stuff, it’s even more affordable either in 3u or 4u.

1 Like
#990

thanks for the effort. The ideal would be to have a panel with two Bela boards along with some attenuators and buttons/swithces
Probably going from scratch is better.

#991

So this VFG looks cool… Does the cv output in accordance to your pressure on the pads, attenuated by the knob of course? Or is it just outputting static voltage when it opens?
Again, Pressure points still does more and its cheaper, individual Pressure and Gate on each channel and three pre-set voltages per each.

#992

Wow, its pretty simple to make a touch plate…


I may try this out.
2 Likes
#993

I was lucky and got my R**S when everything still was DIY. Somehow I can’t justify paying 812€ for a dual PCO. Same reason I never considered Buchla. The DIY option was a good compromise.
However, Ralf was always super helpful and they probably still have some DIY PCB’s :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#994

I didn’t realize until now that the new PCO module isn’t diy… so strange! It looks like the other 4x4 modules are still available as diy kits…

#995

Logan says the CV Output is in accordance with the pressure on the pads, with the maximum value of the CV Output determined by the position of the Scale knob.

#996

I choose RS in 3u with inly reason to add some good sound analog modules to my euro system. I have no interest in this time to copy Serge classic system and think in this paradigm.

For aesthetic and feel of a single instrument I think (4u and 5u) is better. I know my MU system is a way better that modules in eurorack.

GAS in euroland can be also a little if you search modules with minimum functionality and great raw sound (it’s not a trend)

One more fact - Id like to search some music releases at mw serge/buchla/ems zone because there are some gems:)

#997

The voice panel from 73-75 costs less than 1k, for example. It would be cheaper to get that than a doepfer rack.

A built 73-75 goes for under a thousand? If you’re comparing homebuilt and retail modules, it’s apples and oranges.

#998

Yes — the voice panel, built, from 73-75, was less than a grand. With VAT, 975 euro.