Serge thread

[niall]

Wet wet wet!
Admirable restraint and attention to detail. It’s hard not to just come out, guns blazing with feedback patches sometimes.

[ThanosF]

It’s all about the restraint indeed! The treasures are on the edges of total chaos.
Eliane Radigue is the master of restraint. Her feedback works are a wonder! I’m guessing that Serge is a much more difficult system to restrain than the ARP that she worked with.

[philmaguire]

Does anyone have a generic panel template? That is, one with hole guides marked off every inch, like the old paperface panels.

[niall]

Almost every patch I start turns into a forest of cables. Partly because I don’t quite know when something is “done,” partly because I have a compulsion to use everything around me, and partly because it’s just fun, the stacking.

[qwoned]

@philmaguire

Does anyone have a generic panel template? That is, one with hole guides marked off every inch, like the old paperface panels.

I’d like to know this, too.

[wheelersounds]

@philmaguire I could whip one up, do you just want a panel outline and holemap in svg?
EDIT: Okay so here’s 3 different maps as 3 layers in one SVG – happy to share in other formats if anyone would like. I made these based on panels I found doing a google image search, so if anyone has better specs or suggestions for edits I’m happy to make them. Also if the files don’t work for you I can try some other options for exporting.
The 3 options are: 16 x 6 (1"x1"), 17 x 6 (1"x1"), and 17 x 8 (1" x 0.75"). Everything is centered on a 19"x7" canvas. It seems that some paperface panels use 16 columns and some 17, so I put both as different layers. I also included a “more contemporary” 17 column layout with tighter row spacing, which I’ve seen often on Loudest Warning modules, and is also the current Elby spacing suggestion (which I used on my panel).
I included the hole size I used on my panel (7/16", or about 11mm) which seemed best suited for my 'nana jacks and pots. These holes are slightly oversized so I could line the pots/jacks up in spite of inconsistent drilling, which I did by hand. My switch holes were smaller (3/16" I think, can check) so this hole size might not be universal for everyone’s use case.

[ThanosF]

Yes I had that too, then i started working with restrictions. It makes things so much more interesting. For example I have a whole album where every track is made out of 3 sound sources only. Also, feedback patching is hard work but you could have a sound so complex that it’s interesting by itself.

[chiasticon]

@hawksquill

just when i felt settled on getting edelweiss to compliment my bestia ii, crocodile shows up. id love some input from people about which of the two would better suit my needs.

of course only you will know what you need and want to spend your money on. but fwiw I’ve got the Edelweiss and La Bestia pair and it’s tremendous. the SG’s are super flexible and it’s great to have four of them. the logic, divider and N Com are probably my favorite/most used parts of the system. I can’t imagine not having them. and it’s always great to have random source and CV processing, in any modular system. for me… I can see adding a Crocodile to this (but actually a Mantra would make more sense) but I can’t see being without the Edelweiss. it’s just an all around excellent utility/CV processing panel. a worthy addition to most any system. basically… I think panels like the Mantra, Crocodile and La Bestia are best as “starting places” for an R*S Serge system, with Edelweiss being the first place to expand. once you’re there, well you can then get crazy with adding anything haha

hopefully that helps…

[gnome666]

@chiasticon

of course only you will know what you need and want to spend your money on. but fwiw I’ve got the Edelweiss and La Bestia pair and it’s tremendous.

+++1 from me. I too had la bestia and other panels bought and sold, but the only one that I’ve kept through my revolving door has been the edelweiss II, for many of the reasons stated above. While i don’t think its probably a best “first” panel or the best “desert island” panel…if you have a voice panel or a panel that your happy with and are looking to expand, IMHO edelweiss II is the way to go. 4 DUSGs FTW

[wheelersounds]

Okay all, here’s my custom Elby Serge 4U build notes if you’re at all interested… I’ve collapsed the sections so it doesn’t take up the whole thread but I go into pretty serious detail in case people are curious.

Basic summary:

This was my most challenging DIY build to date, mostly because the information on assembly is rather disparate, and I sourced all the build materials myself (I build/assemble electronics for work but I always have a shop available, and engineers usually spec the build for me). For me the hardest part by far was faceplate graphics, as I am less experienced with those materials. But other than scope and inexperience, this build was not all that difficult, and has been extremely gratifying. Huge thanks to all on this forum and the few posts at Muffs, couldn’t have done it without y’all.

Planning:

I bought 11 inches of 4U for my 12-inch enclosure, and I wanted to get the “Serge Essentials” which seem to be DUSG, ResEQ, VCFQ, and Wave Mults. I added Noise/S&H and an oscillator because I sold a Korg Arp Odyssey to partially fund this project and I wanted to have a mono VC synth voice with calibrated 1v/Oct. I ended up adding a mixer later, which I copied from the CGS04 schematic and ordered parts from Tayda.
I used Affinity Designer to plan the layout of my panel, which I’ve posted above but will include again here (I also used it to design my panel graphics). After I got my parts, I measured my components and sized them in Affinity so I knew what my tolerances were, and where graphic labels should go in order to prevent collisions.

Ordering:

I bought the whole shebang from Elby – PCB, component, and panel kits. I was very confused about the order process initially, because they offer PCBs separate from the components, and a separate panel kit as well – basically you can buy what you need (or think you need) depending on what you want to source yourself. Laurie (who runs Elby) is in the midst of updating a lot of the boards and the new versions are beautiful, though as an early adopter I ran into some PCB and kit errors. Nothing too serious, but I did end up needing to exchange board components a couple of times (they sent me the new PCB and old component kit), and post from Australia to the US took some time. In any case, it all worked out and Laurie was extremely helpful. I’m absolutely going to order from him again. I also bought a power bus board, but avoided the mounting rails and flying cables because I read a lot about grounding issues and stuff with those components.

PCB kits I bought –
DUSG, Wave Mult, Res EQ, Analog Noise/S&H, VCFQ, CGS Oscillator v3. My only afterthought on any of this was regarding the Compact Oscillator – the “sine” output is not in fact a sine. It has a pretty major voltage spike at peak, which adds admittedly nice upper harmonics at audio rate but makes it fairly useless as a sine LFO (the build guide explains this feature as taking advantage of a feature in one of the chips). If you want something closer to a “true” sine, maybe check out the Precision Oscillator or another option.
Oh, and regarding the panel components – they sent me full-size pots (as opposed to the compact ones) with knurled shafts, and the banana jacks are pretty deep – so deep that they sometimes contact certain components on the PCBs behind them, and you have to mount them with the contact oriented away from the board, and sometimes also bent down (see photo).

Smaller 'nana jacks and pots would avoid this, and also allow for more room with denser panel layouts, like a lot of the Loudest Warning modifications. I remember choosing to order the panel kit from Elby because it was simpler. I’m not sure I’ll order panel components from Elby again, though I seem to remember it being significantly cheaper to get from Elby than from Tayda etc. I might do a price comparison on my next order and make the decision then.

Other parts I got –

• A hammond 1444-1273 enclosure (12x7x3 inches, 7" tall and 3" deep being the most necessary dimensions) and the corresponding “bottom plate” which ended up being my faceplate. I planned 11 inches of modules for a 12" enclosure.
• CLee brackets from Modular Addict, these were totally worth it (the other options being the Elby mounting rails, or standoffs on the bottom of the enclosure, or other creative options).
• a plastic M3 standoff assortment was necessary for mounting to the CLee brackets.
• Silicone 20ga and 24ga hook up wire, though I was unable to source any that fit inside the PCB strain relief holes. If I were to do it again (which I will) I would buy 20ga silicone wire for power distro, and regular 24ga wire with an outer diameter under 1.5mm (which was surprisingly difficult to find!).
• I ended up following a lot of Loudest Warning’s mods/additions because he so generously provides build directions on his tumblr. As such, I had to buy some extra panel components, which I got from Tayda. They banana jacks don’t match the Elby so my panel is aesthetically inconsistent, but that doesn’t chap my hide.
• I forgot to order Laurie’s single-panel power supply, and forgot to buy one both of the times he sent me replacement components. I bought a PSU kit from AI synthesis and a 12vAC-AC adaptor from Amazon, but I wish I’d bought Laurie’s PSU because I want all my gear to take DC input (so they can all be battery powered!). Might swap it out later.
• I ended up buying some ESD tweezers, IC tweezers, a silicone mat, and a good-sized piece of anti-static foam for working with all of this stuff. I’ve scraped by in my own workshop for a long time without, but this build was too important/sensitive and it’s been totally worth it.

PCB Build:

Components were shipped in paper envelopes (less plastic, thank god!) in bulk. ICs were in a separate baggie on antistatic foam. The first thing I did was put all the envelopes in ascending values, as they were a bit haphazard upon arrival. Also, there were some caps of the same value but different types, so I marked the polystyrene vs. polyester caps for future ease.

For each build, I printed out the build guide, Component BOM, and overlay sheet. This allowed me to stay super organized throughout. The build guides for each module have specific mods/attentions and having them printed out in front of me was very helpful for keeping track of these irregularities (for instance, there are lots of possible parts substitutions, and I needed to keep track of which particular ICs/transistors Elby sent me, and where they’re supposed to go.)

As I pulled different components from the kit’s bulk stock, I put ICs on a piece of antistatic foam, and components with easily read (or no) values on a paper plate. I kept all resistors and caps in their envelopes until I soldered them to the boards, and as I pulled and soldered I marked the BOM and overlay printouts with a highlighter. I would also mark down the new quantity of components in the envelopes to keep accurate counts. This process helped me to easily track errors in component counts (like I mentioned above, I was sent a couple old kits with updated PCBs) and staying organized prevented me from blaming myself for doing something wrong.
I did the boards one at a time, and as is common practice I started with low profile components (resistors and diodes) and worked up to the tallest components (big caps and trim pots).

I’m proud (and quite surprised, honestly) to say that using this process (along with enough food/water, and not working when I was too tired), I made zero mistakes on the entire solder build.
Oh, here’s my CGS04 mixer, in audio configuration, on a smol perf:

Panel drilling:

Printout of the panel layout to keep track of where there are 'nanas, knobs, and switches.

I printed out a 1" x 3/4" grid (with additional in-between holes marked) and used a spring-loaded metal punch to mark each hole on the panel. I did all of the marking and drilling from the side with protective adhesive. Using a metal punch automatically centers the drill bit and give it more to grab, increasing accuracy.

I marked the top of the panel (surprisingly important!) and noted which drill bit sizes were to be used on which holes. I thought I would use different sizes for knobs and 'nanas, but they all ended up being the same size (5/16"). Switches were 1/4" and the Elby-provided LEDs were 5/32". I measured the components (twice!) before drilling, and started with the smallest holes first – you can always go bigger, but never smaller.
I deburred the holes by hand, but would probably use a deburring drill bit next time – doing it by hand required that I remove the protective film, and I scratched it all up.

Panel graphics:

After drilling, I removed the component layer from my panel design, leaving just the graphics, then printed it out to compare with my holes. I ended up nudging things around a bit, so this step was important before moving on to waterslide decals.

WATERSLIDE DECALS WERE HARD.
This was VERY challenging for me, mostly because I had zero previous experience with the materials for doing panel graphics and there was a lot of trial and error. I’m still not very happy with the results, but I suppose it works. I’ll look for other solutions in the meantime.
I bought clear A4 laser printer decal paper, which was just long enough for my 12" panel (8.5" x 11" was too small). I bought a 20-pack for $15 and used half of them trying to get the process right. (I used a DIY pedal for practice but realized that doing a whole sheet at once is, well, very different.)
First, I printed a decal and compared it with the panel. I warmed purified water on the stove and poured it into a very clean cookie sheet. I trimmed the decal to size, then placed it to soak in the warm purified water for 60 seconds (laser decals don’t require sealing beforehand). Then I washed the panel with dish soap, rinsed with purified water, then wiped with alcohol and a lint-free t-shirt rag. I placed the panel face-up on a lint-free cloth and applied purified water to the surface.
Then I followed the directions for how to apply the decal, sliding it first off the backing a small amount, lining it up with the bottom of the panel, and slowly sliding the backing out from between the decal and the panel. At this point I could move the decal around and get good placement before using a spatula to squeeze out the air bubbles and excess water under the decal. On a smaller decal this process is much easier, but on a full sheet it was very difficult to make sure I got to the whole thing before it started getting sticky. Also, during this process the decal stretched a bit, so I worked from the center out to try and keep things uniform. Then I baked at 220°F for 20 mins.
After that, I tried using a clear coat sealant but the solvents in the clear coat kept dissolving my carefully placed decal, and I’d have to start all over. I ended up getting A4 clear vinyl sticker paper and placing that over the decal instead. It’s working okay so far.

Final assembly:

I marked up a printout with the potentiometer values and switch types. If I had a color printer, this would be the perfect guide for panel assembly, but I don’t so I also consulted the graphics on my laptop for 'nana jack colors.

To make sure everything fit (and I had what I needed) I put all my components loosely on the panel. This allowed me to set orientations and plan for tight spots. I also had to snip a couple corners off of the mounting brackets when they collided with components that were off the grid (such as the Shape switch). Then I removed the panel components and started assembly.

Consulting the wiring guide on the Elby website (or Loudest Warning if I was using his mods), I soldered wire to all the appropriate points on the PCB including power. Then I installed the panel components, being mindful to orient the super-long 'nana jacks so the contacts didn’t touch components on the PCB. I pre-placed screws and standoffs on the CLee mount and secured it to the faceplate via the panel components. Then I slid the PCB into place, and secured it to the standoffs.

I soldered the wires to their appropriate jacks/pots starting from the back and moving forward. Once a module was completed, I connected power and tested it all. I started with the oscillator because it required the most calibration. I don’t have a bench power supply so I had to DIY one to send accurate voltages to the 1V/oct inputs.

All I have left is to mount the PSU into the chassis and add a power jack and a couple ground jacks for connecting to other devices. I also have plans to build a format jumbler and a Teensy-based CV/Gate thingy that’s still in the planning phase.

[909one]

Just finally dig into some feedback patching with the Wave Mulitplier, wow! I’d done some with the Res Eq, and that is also great but the Wave Mult is a little more interactive I’m finding, especially with cv on each section, hooked into something like Pressure Points, you can really have an interactive experience going. Just a noob Serge sharing some fun… Carry on.

[ThanosF]

The waveshaper is also amazing for feedback! Send outputs into inputs. You can make the res eq feedback a certain frequency and send it to one of the inputs of the waveshaper or multiplier.

[909one]

Here’s the feedback experiment I mentioned above…
I’ve got some granular stuff happening in Live as well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJDLXF9BsJn/

[ThanosF]

Yes that’s a great idea to combine a feedback patch with a granular processor. I use morphagene and clouds for that. I also have a proposal: Feedback can easily turn into chaotic bleeps and bloops, try to find the edge of when feedback turns chaotic and play with different parameters once you find it.

[gnome666]

anyone know of somewhere in the US to order rack ears compatible with the Random Source boats? I had ordered them from PatchPoint in the past, but I’d like to avoid ordering stuff from them if I can…

[niall]

I think I’ve gotten them from Modular Addict; of course, r*s should be an option, too.

[pelang]

new minimal serge only drones:

[G4B3]

Curious to pick the brains of those of you who made the jump from eurorack to Serge.

I’ve got a small euro system right now and really enjoy it but I’ve been finding the modules I’m most interested in seem to often boil down to being “inspired by Serge, who was inspired by Buchla.” Pair that with finding the euro format a bit too small for my liking sometimes, wishing I was always using stackables, and Serge full panels seeming like well thought out cohesive systems, and I arrived at “maybe I should just switch to Serge.” Plus patch programming interests me.

Not planning on completely getting out of euro. Will keep my case and select modules I really like. Mostly because there is more DIY options in that format and I’d like to build more. But if I do make the leap I think I would sell most of my current euro modules.

Anything you miss about being eurorack-centric? Anything I should keep in mind? I’ve been lurking this thread for a while and I don’t think I’ve seen this come up before but if it has feel free to link me to that conversation.

[909one]

So this question is coming at a good time… I have 5 R*S panels of 4u and also a row of euro that I’m using to control the 4u. While I really dig it, I’m actually considering going back to all euro, and rebuying my favorite Serge modules in euro format. I thought I’d slowly make the jump to all 4u Serge, but honestly while you can have a complete synth in 4u, the options for control in euro vastly outweigh that of Serge. I also thought I’d being going more in the direction of experimental stuff, but I’m still finding that I want to do some tonal music and it’s way easier and cheaper in euro with all the options for quantizers and the like out there… things like Marbles just don’t exist in Serge. I absolutely use that module on almost every patch. For half the price of a TKB I have Marbles, 0-Ctrl , Pressure Points, and another quantizer. Since I know I’m not giving up that stuff any time soon, it just seems like extra work to add convertor to patch banana to 1/8 and back.

Also another big reason for potentially going back or staying in euro is the effects… I thought I was going to do all of this in Ableton and honestly I just don’t like it that much. I’d like to get a few things I used to have like Morphagene, Clouds, Mimeophone again.

So honestly, I’d seriously consider not making a jump to 4u if you are going to keep one foot in euro, I don’t think it’s worth it, personally. I think there’s a bit of mystique surrounding other formats outside of euro because euro has become so ubiquitous, but once that wears off, i really don’t think about it because it really doesn’t feel that much different patching banana vs 1/8". If you look at the size of the plugs of the stackables compared they are almost the same size. And people say that banana doesn’t pop when u unplug it, and I have not found that to be true. The main difference is really in the layout of the panels. And the euro R*S panels maintain that grid structure that 4u has.

Lastly, I find that some modules, for example the DUSG, to be a step backwards after using Maths. I think Maths is a much more refined version, aside from the lack of v/o standard, which you could get in something like Joranalogue.

The big thing that’s keeping me from selling the 4u yet is the sound. I’m pretty smitten with it and i hate to mess with the formula. I’ve heard that R*S euro are the same circuits but I’d be pretty let down if I went back to euro and lost the tones I’m getting now. I think it’s mostly due to the Wave Mult and the VCFS, so most likely If be fine in euro…

[gslam]

obviously depends on your personal needs (use of MIDI, digital effects, etc.) but i basically was in your position a couple years ago. i slowly sold gear off to fund building a serge, and at this point i have finally decided to sell the rest of my eurorack (though still keeping the morphagene and a converter box for kicks). just speaking personally, i don’t really care about digital modules, vastly prefer analog sequencers to digital/midi ones, and the key things i used in eurorack anyway (ring modulators, filters, slope generators) were all improved by moving to serge

of course, no shame in focusing on euro serge - it’s all the same circuits anyway, and may be the best middle ground

there is still DIY potential in serge - DIY is after all the heart of the serge ethos. i did build most of mine from R*S kits which are admittedly getting harder to find, but 73-75 is out there as well

a very lazy breakdown might be: if you’re interested in a big analog machine to play with that you’ll never totally understand - go serge. if you’re more interested in quickly getting down melodies/rhythms, studio ‘efficiency’, portability, or packing lots of things into a small space, stay euro