Should the work stand on its own?


Well, I think that’s part of my point. We can and should re-evaluate his work in light of recent events, and of course this is going to extend beyond the individual into a critique of the culture at large. We can and should do that.


I kind of hope you don’t. Edit - and it’s a shame you did.
It’s a thoughtfully worded post that definitely deserves to remain as part of the thread.


I think about it all the time. I think it’s something worthwhile to critique. The beeps and boops can feel pretty meaningless at times. At the very least, I’d like to find a way to reintroduce some lyricism to the music so that it at least has the potential for carrying a message with some kind of clear meaning.


this post is gold and I want to thank you for articulating this all

great points


this is another example of how little I know
was completely unaware he’d said this…also had no idea regarding controversy surrounding burzum, picasso, chaplin and many others mentioned above

reeling a bit right now


I know this is drifting from the main thrust of the thread, but I just want to present at least one public voice that acknowledges having heard you, and deciding never to patronize any of the businesses you’ve named here and in the past (and since deleted). Thankfully, I never did in the first place either.


To some extent, the line can be drawn at “how do they use the platform that their art creates?” Varg’s initial recordings were kind of goofy fantasy (there’s a song called “The Crying Orc”, for fuck’s sake), but over time, he used the recognition he gained to promote his knuckle-dragging racist horseshit (and still does), so I gotta be done with him.

But that’s not always easy, and it doesn’t always hold up.


I dunno about this. What I do know is I’m unable to listen to the brilliant “Brother I Prove You Wrong” by Charles Cohen after reading about his sex offence/child abuse charges.


This is close to my favorite post on lines, and it would take me an equally long post to say why and add to what you just said so I won’t (because I’m doing other things at the moment). But this was both the most comforting and depressing read of the day, which is what (my?) life’s about.


I think it’s OK to acknowledge that we as a species may (just may) be evolving thanks to technology - as it becomes progressively harder to obscure awful behavior from the masses those behaviors may in fact diminish. But bad behavior thrives in darkness, and it takes effort and commitment to shine the light into every dark corner, so we must remain vigilant.

OK, that’s enough pithy aphorisms for one afternoon.


Can we consider awful behaviors are diminishing if the very origin of this newly gained comfort is a system that derives from the senseless destruction of the world we live in?

To be more specific, if the bad behaviours are slowly disappearing, how come as a whole, we’re moving toward destruction more rapidly than ever before?


Well, if you’ve ever lifted a rock under which a bunch of vermin were safely hiding, you’ve noted that they tend to scatter - dramatically - when you lift the rock. So yes, we can consider awful behaviors are diminishing or at least are being actively scrutinized because we’re seeing them and confronting them (to varying degrees of success).

As much as I am disheartened by the current state of affairs, I take great comfort in knowing that at least the bad behaviors and even worse attitudes are increasingly Out In The Open where they can be dealt with. You can’t manage what you can’t measure.

But then, I’m an optimist.


Humans tend to celebrate and reward ruthless, superstitious, destructive, overcrowding behaviour and ideas over other human activities and ideas worldwide. We tend to continue growing as a species in terms of unsustainable numbers also. The planet will probably go on without us, just in another form … probably with a whole new selection of animals. Also, entering messages into machines designed for war on a network also made for war may have some positive effects. Although it may end up being too late by the time we know for sure.


So … I guess you’re a pessimist. And so the circle is complete! :slight_smile:


Am new to this community but this is a decent, thoughtful thread.


This is an old, probably unresolvable debate that really boils down to personal thresholds, personal choice, and personal emotional response. Processing context is a big part of it. There’s tons of stuff I just can’t listen to or watch after finding out something or other about its maker and there’s tons of stuff I do that I probably shouldn’t. I think it’s important to acknowledge the selective internal enforcement that often goes on here, but also an important conversation to have.

Did anyone mention Lovecraft yet? :thinking:


This community is so amazing because I feel like if I shut my mouth long enough somebody is bound to come very close to what I would’ve said (far more elegantly & succinctly)

This post is almost EXACTLY what I’ve been trying to condense into words and type.

Spot on!

Might still share specific examples of how contradictory I have been in making these personal choices.


Thank you for this post and your redacted comments, it is super important that this be heard. It is shameful and sad.


I wrote something way too long, stepped away and did some work, then came back and threw the rest in the trash. Thank goodness, ha.


Kind of off-topic, but I view misanthropy as a realistic virtue. I mean, how can an intelligent, aware individual not hate humankind for its abhorrent, inherent flaws, especially in the era of free global information exchange?

To relate it to the thread, if humankind has created immense suffering, can any amount of virtue redeem it?