Studio treatment

[kisielk]

Doesn’t the Roxul need to be contained in something so the fibres don’t get all over the place?

[bradfromraleigh]

According to their specs, there is no fiberglass in the material and it is safe to handle. Either way, I will be enclosing the panels with wood frames and foam/fabric covering (depending on ease of use for each).

[bassik]

These panels will give u only a bit of sound abs in the mid high.
If you put wood in front of it you will reduce its sound abs further unless you use the wood in a bass trap (vibrating panel) fashion.

I would suggest you buy a 100 mm melamine foam and cover with fabric, you got way better result…not for room modes though.

[bradfromraleigh]

The wooden frames are for the edges, not the face of the panel.

[bradfromraleigh]

Finally got my DIY bass traps constructed and installed this weekend. I won’t detail my process as I made several mistakes along the way. This was the story of having slightly less materials, in all respects, than I required. I used Roxul Safe N Sound which was available at my local big box home improvement store for $39. Framed in using 1"x4" pine. Covered in a bargain bin black/gray linen fabric I found at a craft store.

In the end, they look good and they seem to work. It didn’t kill the room but I definitely noticed a difference at the listening position. I did the math and it turns out my speakers were at the perfect location to reflect symmetrical 45 degree angle sound waves right back to my listening position. The bass traps definitely improved this.

I really didn’t believe I would hear much difference but I was wrong. Its like wearing dirty sunglasses in bright sunlight and then cleaning them. You are still seeing the same thing, the detail is just more apparent.

[jlmitch5]

I am interested in starting an acoustic treatment project for my music/guest bedroom space. And as a first step, I mapped out the space (and some potential re-layouts). The room is an approximately 11.4’ (3.48m) cube (tho is L-shaped because part of that is the closet). Here are some more or less to-scale drawings of the layout ideas (approximate first reflection areas in purple).

After I decide on a layout, I’m gonna do a bit more accurate measuring, and see if I can figure out if I can do some audio measurement stuff like @ermina had in the super helpful blog post, then start figuring out what kind of treatment I should do.

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Based on reading the conversation here, some of the links and a few other resources, I think that layout 3 is probably the best (layout 2 has the first reflections really close to the listening position which I haven’t seen called out specifically, but I imagine is not a good thing).

For Layout #3, I’m not sure how much it will mess with the aesthetics, but I think I might be able to move the desk more slightly in front of the utility closet door (it only needs to be unobstructed a few times a year for inspection) and a little farther from the wall by moving the bed closer to the wall.

Layout 1: Current

Layout 2: Desk against bed

Layout 3: Desk against wall

[bradfromraleigh]

Anyone have any ideas and possibly results for a creative approach to a DIY ceiling cloud? I just saw a video on MOXE studios in Nashville and they use cuts of rope hanging from the ceiling in their piano room and also a DIY cloud/wire sculpture type thing in their control room. I put off completion of treating my studio because I’m being lazy - constructing and hanging panels from my 10’ ceilings doesn’t sound like a lot of fun (plus the idea of “lowering” the ceiling with a giant heavy object doesn’t appeal to me). Interested to see if there’s any other approaches that had good results.

[Rodrigo]

First a bit of a bump to say that a bunch of the things in that MOXE video are really awesome looking. That roof lamp/absorber is particularly nice.

Not that I’ve gone looking very much, but that stuff seems pretty unique. Are there more designs out there like this? Or some clearer info on these types of solutions?

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Second is a question about how to best figure out where to put sound treatment.

Basically my studio is a “mixed use” space, with some studio monitors/desk, along with drums and other live instruments. So it is part ‘live room’ and part ‘monitoring setup’, with it weighted towards the ‘live room’ side of things.

The room is a large (4.34m x 5.82m) room with a pointed ceiling (2.44m at the walls and 3.54m at the peak) that is inside what was once a farm structure.

There’s some more pics of it in the pictures thread, but it’s something like this:

A friend suggested using HOFA’s free consultation service, which was fantastic. Basically you send them some measurements and pictures, along with a budget, and then they send you a proposal. (attaching my response so you can see how detailed they are)

Room acoustics treatment & calculation - Rodrigo Constanzo.pdf (659.5 KB)

So I’ve done some of what they have suggested, mainly putting 6 bass traps along the corners (2 stacked in each corner except where the sofa is), but as far as the panels, I haven’t gone with what they said as they seem to have focussed on getting an ideal “mix position”, which is great and all, but does little for the overall sound of the room.

Now I’ve (re)read through this thread a couple of times (great posts from @bassik!), but not exactly sure what the best course of action is for treating the acoustic sound of a room, vs creating an ideal single-point listening position.

In terms of what I have, in addition to the HOFA basstraps in the corners I have ordered 20 x Vicoustic Wavewood panels, so quite a lot of panels for the room. I was initially going to space them around fairly evenly in stacks of 2, with some more precisely placed ones near the listening area, but not sure if that’s the best course of action. Also not against adding some DIY/diffusor things too.

Basically most of the guides and software I’ve seen (REW and @wselman’s spreadsheet) deal with tuning a sweet spot vs creating an overall flatter sound in the room.

Thoughts?

[LLK]

Also interested in exactly all of that, and completely agree that most of the informations out there our about sweet spot treatment and disregard general room treatment for recording purposes. Also interested in what you come up with with the ceiling as most articles also assume your ceiling’s flat.

[bassik]

Hey @Rodrigo,
Just seen the notification on my email.
Being very busy this week I cannot pay attention too much but if you send me a room model I can try to have a look next week.
In any case, you can have a live end in your room and a dead end (very famous design in the 90s LEDE, live end dead end).

The main principle is blocking first reflections to your mixing point, then control room modes and reverberation in the room.

If you are short in equipment and tools, you can place the bass traps in the corners to begin with, and use the wavewood panels to control first reflections (specular reflections like it is a light ray reflecting from a mirror).
Your design looks about right but I would add a solid baking at the panels on the right of your desk.

i would also suggest a diffuser to the back wall related to your desk and another one in the drum location.
Be aware that if you use QRD (or Schroeder diffuser) they have a minimum distance to which the reflected sound field will be diffusive, so do not expect to hear diffuse reflections if you are sitting right next to it.

Hope this helps for the moment

[bassik]

One more thing,

as your side wall on the left of the desk seems quite diffusive, you can spread the panels to improve absorption efficiency.
The principle is based on Fresnel zones.

This video is a good example of it, even if it is not that accurate scientifically, it shows you that you do not need to cover the entire wall to be effective (the guy still have some flutter echo as he uses thin panels, if he would be using thicker panels (80 mm or more) the flutter echo would disappear).

https://youtu.be/cp56A6TcL1E

[abalone]

looks great!
you probably put the drums in the best sounding spot, studios are defined by their drum sound
take time, trust your ears…
if the tile floors make it overly reflective, add some rugs

[Rodrigo]

Man, that would be super useful and amazing!

By “room model” do you mean detailed sketch and spatial/physical measurements, or do you mean sweeps and audio measurements? I can make some IRs of the room, but again, not really sure where to place the speaker(s) and/or mics to measure “the whole room”.

The first reflection stuff makes sense, as I guess that’s a good way to maximize the impact around the mixing area without having to treat everything.

One thing that’s different is that I’m not actually planning on “enclosing” the mixing area like in their spec. That doesn’t really make sense in the room, and I will likely spend far less time on the monitors than I would in the room at large, so physically setting up obstacles in the main space isn’t ideal.

It’s also good that one of the walls is textured/irregular stone wall, so that will help in general (I would think).

I was definitely planning on putting some panels on the wall directly behind me (if facing the speakers/desk), as well as some behind/above the monitors too.

if the tile floors make it overly reflective, add some rugs

Yeah. Already have one really big rug along with a smaller one. I was thinking of adding more, though long long term I will probably swap the floor out to wood, but that won’t be for a while yet.

[bassik]

Hey @Rodrigo
I am sorry I have underestmated how busy December can be.

I cannot promise anything but if you can take IRs measurements at a constant distance from your sweet spot and on your sweet spot, I can tell you if there is any room modes problem.
Also it is good to have reference of the other area of the room.

Reverberation time (and modal decay) is function of source receiver position, although modal decay in small room look more indipendent of this due to the locations you can leave the microphone being constrined.

How do you capture the IRs? do you use Alex Harker IR tools?
or do you use REW?

[Rodrigo]

Hey man, no worries. Any help/input is appreciated, and at any point. I’m not in a big rush to put up the panels as it’s just my home studio that I’m casually using.

It will be a couple of weeks before I can do any of this anyways on my side.

I cannot promise anything but if you can take IRs measurements at a constant distance from your sweet spot and on your sweet spot, I can tell you if there is any room modes problem.
Also it is good to have reference of the other area of the room.

So by “constant distance from your sweet spot” do you mean, like taking recordings that are say 1m away from the sweet spot (but would be closer and further to the speakers), or do you mean constant distance from the speakers (i.e. 1.5m from the speakers fanning out).

And is it best, for this purpose, to create stereo or mono IRs (and then 2 channel or 4 channel stereo (speakerL to micL, speakerL to micR, speakerR to micL, speakerR to micR))?

And in terms of mic, I don’t have a proper reference mic, but I have some ok mics. My “good” options are DPA 4060s (omni) or AKG C214 (cardioid). I have a large diaphragm condenser that’s been modded (new capsule/transformer/etc…) and sounds great, but is an unknown in terms of exact frequency response.

I presume the C214 would be better here for it’s pickup pattern, but I suspect the DPA is flatter sounding.

How do you capture the IRs? do you use Alex Harker IR tools?
or do you use REW?

I was going to use the HISS tools IR stuff. I’ve not used REW before (downloading it now). For some reason I thought it was Windows only…

edit: hmm, REW looks pretty useful. Would you suggest I just do everything in there? (since I presume it’s more tailored to this actual process)

[rick_monster]

About to receive the remaining materials to finish ‘phase 1’ of my shed studio build. I am attempting to create a ‘minimum viable space’ to house my nomadic, box-ridden hoarde… It started off as a very standard shed with shiplap cladding on 3x1 timber frame and only half a very leaky roof. 4 weeks or so into the build, things are looking surprisingly plausible!

Here are the decisions I made to try and finish on a small but not tiny budget:

• 18mm OSB for all internal walls, allowing easy mounting of shelves/work surfaces using woodscrews and shelf brackets
• Opted to not use resilient bar or wall suspension - seems not worth it without installing double glazing
• Rwa45 (high density rockwool) doubles as main sound and thermal insulation in wall cavity
• Interior roof will be rwa45, chicken wire and packing blankets stapled to rafters
• Built a new sloping roof out of 18mm OSB and 2 layer torchdown bituminous felt.
• Have beefed up existing shed double doors into an attempt at soundproof using several cans of expanding foam and more 18mm OSB

Will report back on acoustics of this build as well as soundproofing when I am finally done.

Anyone care to comment on acoustic effects due to floating Vs rigid walls?

[rick_monster]

Things are progressing well, managed to score a load of double glazing on Freecycle on Tuesday - this will help a lot with soundproofing… I fixed the double glazed units to the interior walls over existing Windows to create in effect triple glazing.

6 Windows done, four to go!

[Zhenya]

Hm, are they actually using only drapes as a primary sonic treatment? That’s interesting because could be reproduced at home with not much efforts.

[bradfromraleigh]

That is possible but its also very likely that there was significant effort put into the design of the room for the desired effect.

[Rodrigo]

Rewatched the amazing MØXE studio tour video, and I love love all the creative uses of sound treatment in there.

You don’t get a clear view of it in the video, but I googled my way to some better pictures of “the cloud” in the control room:

From the profile, in particular, it doesn’t look too thick so I’m wondering what kind of material is being used for the absorption. I’ve seen this kind of denim-y or rockwool-type material posted before, but none of those are white (as far as I know).

Mechanically it doesn’t look too complex (other than hours and hours of soldering).

Also wondering if it might be possible to ‘IKEA hack’ one of their KRUSNING lamp shades to include layers of absorbent materials for a compact/simple approach to a similar idea.

(also, in googling the IKEA lamp shades, I found their ODDLAUG acoustic panels, which I hadn’t seen before either. Could make an ok accent wall thing to gobble up some unwanted reflections on a budget)

I’ve also been waiting (for like a year now!) for the updated versions of the Vicoustic Wavewood panels to come out. (right as I was going to buy them, I was told to hold off as new ones were around the corner)

I’ve seen no mention of price anywhere, but I’m wary that product webpage says that each box comes with only 3 (vs 10 per box in the currently available versions).