Suggested reading



Of course we have the responsibility there.
No question.

But internet, and social media, is unlike any other communication medium we used before.

I can’t remember now where I have read this, but the topic was how adjustments to Facebook news feed (wall) algorithm allows to “adjust” level of happiness of the end users. You could say that television could do that as well, and to an extent it does, but not with the surgical precision of Facebook. And, with a very different understanding/perception of the users. We do hold this image of internet being a “many-to-many” dynamic, as opposed to “one-to-many” which would have been the old mass-media structure. With that comes a sense that the medium is “uncontrollable” by the system. In other words: when you watch TV, you expect/understand that you are being fed/manipulated. But when you are “on the internet” the sense is that you yourself are in control of what you consume or produce there. And, of course, that is not the case, and in fact: internet/social media are exponentially more successful at, and adaptable to control and manipulation!

So, my point is: yes, we do have the responsibility.
But we also need to understand that anything we put out there, or what we choose to consume (how we use the medium), is completely malleable by somebody/something else.


Users also have extensive ability to adjust their own feed, independent of Facebook. This is especially true if you use “Friend Lists” which are not algorithmically sorted/filtered the way News Feed is.

Personal responsiblity.

This is the nature of all expression. We do not control the way in which we are perceived. The best we can hope for is to influence such perceptions.

But I can see where you might interpret what I just said as an obtuse denial of Facebook’s ability to directly manipulate what we see. I’m not denying it at all. But I’m also aware that their control is not total, and that we have significant levers of our own in this regard. Rather than slagging Facebook (arguably the most inter-connected communication system ever devised in all of history) it might be more tactically successful to educate about how to influence its behavior, its usage, and the perceptions it resultingly fosters.


I think we agree on most points.

I am not really slagging Facebook (or at least that is not my intent), just acknowledging the fact that the internet/social media as the most complex and widespread media system in the world, is also the most complete and powerful system with which populations can be controlled and manipulated.

Hence my “propagandist’s wet dream” comment.


I think this would be true regardless.

Why does the propagandist get to be a propagandist? Because they are already very powerful. The medium does not change the nature of class warfare.


The medium does change the capabilities.


In both directions!

Facebook is an excellent tool for grassroots organization. We can use it to assemble the people pretty much anywhere on earth (where it is used) for pretty much any reason. This can be a very good thing, and it can also be a very bad thing.

Technology is a tool. Blunt instruments and sharp edges can be put to use in many different ways.

I know I’m speaking to the choir here, as your art is often about these very things! (and exactly why I admire it so much)


I would argue that this is not the case. (Though we would need to agree on what we mean by “powerful”). A lot of propaganda requires no huge wealth or any kind of power, except the power of persuasion perhaps.


This conversation is extending beyond my ability to be both clear and expressive while also attending to my responsibilities. But darn it if it isn’t relevant to my interests. Would love to continue it over a beverage someday.


I really admire the many leisurely (in an economic sense) hours it required to build up those impressive arms. I wonder if he’d interpret it as bourgeois signaling the way I do? No disrespect to a musician I greatly admire, but I guess his sour grapes kinda raised my hackles in a way that makes me want to point out the inherent (and likely unconscious) hypocrisy.


I actually thought that was just Danzig with a haircut.

Attitude’s about the same too!


maybe he has a farm. i’ve been known to get semi-ripped mid-summer (ha)


It’s nice to imagine it that way. :slight_smile:


’if I could start again, a million miles away
I would heal myself, I would find a way -t.reznor

valid points all…
and, let’s not forget, the author of the article, uses t.reznor’s words to say whatever he/she wants to say…
and t.reznors celebrity to sell the article/publication
t.reznor’s cut, because he probably has a personal trainer, so he can make it through the whole tour
-he is the franchise/product (like coldplay)
and/or he enjoys aquatic goat wrestling… :slight_smile:
'we are born with a chance…


I’d say exercise is probably better way to spend leisure time than heroine addiction/alcoholism. Nice to see he’s still as Trent (read angry/confrontational) as ever sans the poor habits


Amen to that.

I really do admire the arms. They’re pretty damn sexy if I’m honest.


Longer term, if subscription music rental can’t work as a standalone business, then it will only exist as a service offered by corporate behemoths to draw customers into the parts of their businesses where they do make money, like selling phones, service plans, or merchandise. And when the distribution of an entire art form is controlled by just two or three nation-state-sized companies, artists and labels will have even less leverage than they do now to set fair rates, the music promoted to fans will be controlled by a small handful of gatekeepers, and more and more artists will be hit with the one-two punch of lower rates and less exposure. The net effect for music as a whole is worrisome.

from here


I must admit that Bandcamp’s lack of this bell or that whistle turned me off for a while. Especially the lack of the really big bell/whistle of: giant back catalog.

But as time goes on, I’m starting to see these as symptoms of the biggest feature of all, and Bandcamp seems to be the only music distribution site that has it. That is, self-determination and independence, that comes from frugality and focus.

Think I’m going to start posting music on Bandcamp real soon now.


My appreciation for Bandcamp grows almost every day. I keep finding myself amazed at how much great music is on there, and I love the simple, basic model of buying, the simple interface, and online access even away from downloaded full res versions.

Three more artists I’ve gotten hip to have showed up there too. But lifetime favorites are there too. And as I’ve been trying for years to limit purchases of physical CDs (resource conservation, waste minimization, minimization of costs, and maximization of profits to artists/indie labels), this is only added value.


Bandcamp is for the people! Can’t wait to see what comes of the things hinted towards the end of the article. Should be a good year for them (and us :grin:)


I really liked this. Thanks @disquiet!