Syncing Norns / Fates to External Clock - Midi - Crow? Scripts?

Monome
#1

Hi!
Im trying to sync my fates to the outside world.

So far i have managed to have tempo sync but have not managed to find a way to reset the script to step 1 on clock stop /start (midi or analog).

So I have tried:

Sync with midi:

Only managed to get stop/start and tempo successfully with midi din and a um one by Roland.

Midi usb has been a fail in start /stop messages.

Sync with crow.
Im feeding pamelas work out euro module into Crow inputs.

The scripts i have trying so far (awake and kria midi) respond to clock input from crow BUT i dont know what signal i should feed into input two of crow to make a reset / start from the beginning.

I have tried a pulse on start, a pulse on stop.

I have tried feeding a clock divider of 1 every 16 beats so it resets to step number 1.

So far its been a fail.

What kind of signal is crow expecting for an analog reset? Is it a crow issue or a script issue!

Ill keep on trying different approaches!

I have also tried link with ethernet. Tempo is spot on, but even though ableton i sending start /stop messages with link, the scripts dont react to it :frowning:

Any ideas? Or working methods?

Thanks :slight_smile:

1 Like
#2

Replying to my own post in frustration, apologies.

I give up for today.

I literally have tried everything that came to my mind.

I tried converting Expert Sleepers es5 to midi, sending midi clock into fates. No luck; it does reset though which is good but i cannot get tight sync.

Tried sending midi clock sync from Ableton into fates trough a iconnect interface and then into roland um-one that goes into fates. Nope

I think the problem comes down to the sum of the jitter produced by:

Syncing fates to midi clock—>converting midi notes to cv-----(via fh1)-------> sending cv to the eurorack and then sending this audio back to the main sync computer.

I can do this with the erm multiclock (in another setup i have) but i think i got too many devices in the chain in this situatuiton.

So last (note to myself) way to try:

Sync with midi in (the most stable i can find) (probably Expert sleepers Es5 or with Erm multiclock) and try:

a) Convert midi to cv with yarns.

b) Send midi with sevilla midi host straight back from fates to the computer and sequence midi instruments there (thats the setup i used in the past that worked good) and avoid all the midi to cv deal.

Just grab my trusty ansible and teletype and use that.

Sucks because there are so many great scripts on Norns/Fates :frowning:

Nigh night

#3

sorry to hear about the troubles – i believe that this comes down to a scripting issue, but i want to verify that i understand what you’re looking to do, if that’s alright (in the morning, don’t worry about this any more today!):

  • you’re using awake and kria
  • you want a MIDI “start” message to reset the positions of these scripts to their starting points
  • you’d like if one of the crow inputs could reset the position, as well

does this summarize things?

the most important thing here might be that neither script seems to implement crow inputs, so the cv signals you were sending aren’t coded to trigger any events.

if it helps: the reason why tempo syncing works (midi or crow) is that these scripts rely on the clock library module, which standardizes what to do with a clock signal. it’s up to individual scripts to extend MIDI further, though.

taking a look at awake’s code, it doesn’t have any handlers for clock start messages, so it doesn’t know what to do with them when received.

kria does have a defined clock.transport.start() function, which does reset position – you can manually trigger this in PARAMS > CLOCK > reset. i was able to sync clock start to the reset using Ableton > external interface like iConnect > um-one > norns, but it sounds like you had trouble with this? is both your fates + kria up to date?

can you describe this setup a bit more? norns doesn’t have built-in MIDI USB – it requires a dongle like the um-one.

hope the rest of the night is smooth!

1 Like
#4

Thank you for your reply @dan_derks !

I really appreciate you detailed reply.

Yes thats right.

Im using awake and Kria. Both and fates are up to date.

Is good to know awake does not have a function of knowing what to do with a reset signal, so ill focus on kria from now on.

I have tried your exact same approach. Ableton- iconnect midi - um one- norns.

I think the problem is the path back. Norns-midi to cv (i have tried fh1 and going to try yarns)- trigger eurorack module- audio back to computer.

If i do the same route avoiding the cv to midi conversion, by sending midi back to the computer and sequencing some midi instruments the delay is not that bad.

When i was talking about norns usb midi, i did not clarify that i was using on the way back a sevilla usb host to midi converter. Maybe i should just use the other um one port and send the midi back from —> fates ---->um one----->i connectivity ------> computer. And not get mixed up with usb host devices.

Im goping to try out a few different things and see what i come up with. Really appreciate your feedback!

Cheers

Edited:

Ok so i have made some discoveries.

On Kria midi the reset on the clock subpage doesnt seem to do anything.

I have downloaded less concepts and when you press the reset button, well it resets.

Clocking crow directly from an analog clock and sequencing an analog voice from crow has MUCH less latency as expected since there is no conversion to do an ill all stays analog.

Might need a second crow after all…

Still digging the setup, thanks a bunch :slight_smile:

#5

Hey, just came across this post and I’m wondering if you ever got your Norns and crow to sync and send a reset to awake or other apps.
I’ve been really wanting my sequences to reset once the clock has stopped. I find that I loose timings of loops and delays with my main sequencers when I stop the clock to arm channels for recording then start the clock again.
I’ve thinking about using crow input 2 for a clock reset but it would be nice to have the Norns clock reset after not receiving a clock for a set amount of time.
I’m hoping the Norns clock will get updates to have this option.

Was your only solution via midi?

norns: clock
#6

Im on the same boat. Ansible and other hardware sync perfectly and also do start /stop reset great. Haven’t had any luck with crow, but i wonder if it’s because most scripts don’t have a reset start /stop implemented as yet

1 Like
Norns midi clock out: start/continue?
norns: clock
#7

that’s pretty much it – i wrote up a buncha detail here: Norns: clock, as well as a version of Awake that adds this functionality. it would be an approachable community endeavor for a small team of willing learners to help add this stuff to everyone’s fave scripts :slight_smile:

5 Likes
#8

@dan_derks id love to help out, unfortunately i have zero knowledge of coding norns (time to learn?) and i got my hands pretty full now at the moment trying to learn teletype which is a deep and enjoyable module!
Please dont take this as some kind of complaint on my part, hopefully it will be a standard feature in future sfripts.
Thanks a lot :slight_smile:

#10

Hi!

Replying to my own post two years after.

Am I missing something or the actual state of norns is that tight sync has not been achieved as yet?

Tight clock sync as with modules like ansible. Norns does have it (as @dan_derks explained above) but its still mot implemented on most scripts?

How are people syncing their gear to norns? Ableton link? I have tried and it reads tempo but start / stop messages? Midi? Crow? How?

Im just sad that after this time this has not been implemented …to my knowledege.

Maybe I should just let go and try other machines. Its a pity because the scripts are incredible!

:frowning:

#11

Most scripts I use definitely have implemented it. It takes like less than 10 lines of code in most cases, they’ve put a lot of work into making it easy for the community to use :relaxed:

Maybe rather than posting a generic message in this thread, you can go find the thread of the script you’re worried about and raise the question there? There are hundreds of norns scripts, so it’s really hard to know which one is bothering you :thinking: I bet someone can help you out, though!

2 Likes
#12

Thanks for your reply @21echoes
Appreciate your implementation on your scripts.
Could you please let me know the names of those scripts?
I have not touched my norns (fates) for a long time, and i assumed more people without coding skills, would have wanted to have tight clock sync.
I replied to this thread because I asked the same question two years ago, and as it seems, it still not a feature thats is implemented on mosts scripts.
It also raises the question of how are people syncing their gear?
Thanks for your help, much appreciatted!

#13

What I’m saying is that this does not match my experience. Can you please be more specific about which scripts do not have it implemented? It’s hard to be more helpful without something more specific to work with

#14

Hi @21echoes,

I spent some time today testing some scripts like Archologies, Flora, GRD, Less Concepts… and most of them work well under clocked with Link :slight_smile:

I have seen that some of them dont follow start / stop from Link but others do.

Also been having some issues with the link quantum.

Overalll im happy with the results, so its due to spend sometime on the scripts and try to see if I can implement crow and link start / stop.

When you said its a little bit of code in mnost cases, did you refer to the post by @dan_derks on adapting old scripts to the new clock?

Anyways, seems I got lots to catch up to!

Thanks for your help!

1 Like
#15

Of course! Glad to hear that things are better for you than a few years ago.

Yes, I think the post from Dan is a wonderful reference for how to implement clock following. I don’t use Ableton so I don’t have any additional tips about Link in particular, but I bet the guide will be sufficient :smile: if there’s a specific script you have trouble with, I recommend you go post in the thread for that script, so the script author sees it and can help out! Best of luck :smile:

#16

Thanks @21echoes !!

Im cheking the library now and there are so many scripts I had no idea off :slight_smile:

Cheers

1 Like