#118

In a similar situation. Before I got my SSL Six, I was thinking about a collection of 500 format modules, but I was overwhelmed with the choices, and thought the Six was a better value proposition for starting. Glad I made that decision, I couldn’t be happier with the Six’s preamps, EQ’s and compressors. Everything is modern production quality, so I’m still thinking about some color modules, myself. I have a Boum, a White Instruments inductor-based EQ, and some RIPs for the cinemag transformers–so I’m trying to sort out what might be some appropriate 500 modules.

4 Likes
#119

Mixbus EQ and compressors (though the built in SiX bus compressor is pretty rad), preamps for 3/4 and 5/6 (and alt 1 and alt 2 and ext 2). Reverb or effects for ext 1. Channel EQ for 3/4 and 5/6.

Those are the kinds of 500 series things I use with my SiX.

The SiX (with patchbay for the db25 stuff) is a supremely well thought out mixer.

3 Likes
#120

i highly recommend checking out the SSL fusion or the Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet. i wish i had gotten one of those instead of color modules to be honest.

4 Likes
#121

Can I just roll back a bit and ask some really basic questions here?

People are using these 500 units preamp , compressions ( etc) in a home studio set up and then going into a computer?
what kind of signal would youtake out from this gear ?(balanced line level) and then go into a standard audio interface… or specific higher end stuff? I love the idea of some of this equipment but thinking in terms of the whole audio chain.
Love to hear a bit of context on how this stuff is used to the best advantage.

#122

Preamps bring the system up to line level. From there it goes wherever line level signals go: other hardware processors or recording media (converter or tape).

When mixing and mastering, I like to incorporate hardware processors so I use my converter to send out line level into 500 and 19” gear, then back in via the converter.

In practice this means that the signals are always hot enough that the converter’s preamps aren’t ysed very often. Though I do track with the converters directly sometimes when I want an ultra clean sound. Before, when my converter wasn’t as nice, it was cool to be able to skip the cheesy converter preamp and use just my clean 500 preamp.

2 Likes
#123

interesting hadnt even considered the benefit of looping it out and then back in again. Was thinking more in terms of getting good input when recording.

When I upgraded my computer and went to windows 10 I couldnt work out how to keep my Mbox pro which is no longer supported and needs firewire. I got a presonus 1810 (usb c) but I cant get the warmth I had before with my new set up. Well it needs a few plugins to get there. The guy who recommended it said it was an improvement but think its a bit tinny. would a nice pre in front of it help me here ?

1 Like
#124

You might get better/broader feedback for that question in the Mixers and Interfaces topic or the Improving the Signal Chain topic, @Zedkah.

In my opinion (just an opinion!) the Mbox/Presonus/Focusrite gear is all at the same level of quality–completely acceptable starter gear. Lots of great recordings made on them and in terms of value they’re good; to improve on them requires spending quite a bit more (and knowing exactly what you want to improve).

If I had a recording that was tinny I would probably start by exploring EQ settings because that’s the cheapest and easiest. Then I’d be exploring mic placement (and if it was a stereo or multi-mic recording I would look at phase issues) because that’s the least expensive way to solve it. Then I would look at different mics (which can be expensive but a good mic doesn’t become obsolete and will likely hold resale value). After that I’d try sending the sound through anything with a beefy transformer.

Lots of mics and also lots of 500 series gear have transformers integrated in them. Mostly this is a sound/taste issue and you’re the only one who is going to know what’s right. You’ll have to experiment to find what kind of things you like. One person’s “tinny” is another person’s “clarity,” one person’s “warmth” is another person’s “mud” and so on. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#125

Thanks again, yes sure I dont want to off topic the thread, my signal chain issues more of an illustration of the issues with ‘starter gear’ in that you do come to feel its limits. Guess i see this 500 series stuff as next level up- but i could be wrong. Love the form factor the way some of it is modular and swapable and that there are good diy options.
Still genuinely interested where the 500 stuff sits and contexts where it excells.

1 Like
#126

Got another question that some of you may be able to help with. Looks like most/all 500 racks have XLR or DB25 connectors on them which isn’t terribly convenient for someone whose gear is all unbalanced 1/4" line level stuff… It doesn’t look like there are patchbays that have 1/4" unbal on the front to balanced on the back (which is sensible enough) but I can’t be the only person with a use case for connecting instrument cables into a rack via a patchbay?

Edit: the hypothetical ideal device would be 8x2 bay that offered impedance and bal/unbal conversion so I could mix and match my instruments, pedals and 500 modules.

#127

The absolute most advantageous use case is mobile/portable recording/mixing using hardware: bring your favorite hardware with you on the plane to wherever you’re working. 19” can’t compete with that.

Next is space-constrained work environments where having 19” racks is problematic. And/or grounding issue simplification advantage—advantages unique to the space one occupies.

There can be an economic advantage as the power supply is amortized across the collection of units.

Finally there are advantages of specific pieces which only exist in 500. There aren’t many of these though to be fair. Most of what is available in 500 is also available in 19” or in some cases as a pedal.

The overall advantage of 500 over 19” in this area is perhaps in flexibility for the given space. 500 is 3u high x 8-11 modules depending on the box you get. If you were to get 19” gear in that same space you have a choice of 1-3 manufacturers whereas with 500 every slot could be a different manufacturer.

If someone is unconstrained in terms of space and also has no mobile element to their work then 19” would likely make more sense. Maybe a small lunchbox for the unique items in 500 that a person likes.

Once any combination of space or mobility come into play 500 series becomes an attractive option. With things like the Cranborne or Titan lunchboxes additional economics and functionality start coming into focus as well in terms of workflow and saving money on cabling/patchbays.

Sonically there’s not much 500 can do that 19” doesn’t also do. But for many great utilitarian items the reverse is also true!

3 Likes
#128

Many 500 series preamps have a DI built into the front (the A-designs, Cranborne, Electrodyne, Neve r88lb etc) which you can use to bring a TS signal up to line and balance it.

Radial makes a 500 series reamper that will get you out balanced line for your guitar pedals.

Many standalone DI and reamp boxes do this too, Little Labs has a couple great devices for this task.

#129

I had this same question - my understanding is that you can just use xlr to 1/4" for line in.

However, you don’t want to send mic input through the patchbay because sending phantom power through it can damage other units in your patchbay. I send everything through a mixer first then use direct outs to my patchbay so there is no need for phantom power on anything in the rack. Not sure what best practice is, but it works for me.

#130

I think direct connection of mics to preamps where as line level I/O through the patch bay is pretty standard…most pro gear offers both inputs (including nearly all 500 cases I think). I didn’t think about the potential for damage but that does make sense, I think mics are discouraged from running through the patch bay because the amount of gain the preamp does can amplify extra noise and interference a patchbay can add (which is super negligible when working at line levels and comparatively small amounts of gain staging needed there)

1 Like
#131

With exception of DI inputs on some of the pre-amps*, 500-series gear wants to receive and sends out balanced audio signal. If your source is unbalanced, the best thing to do IMO is simply to balance it. That can be done as mentioned in some post above by using DI/reamp boxes or similar.

If you would like to make a patchbay for that, it’s easy – add transformer between each input and output (where output will be +, - and 0). Downside can be the cost and size of good quality transformers that can take relatively strong signals. This will however also block accidental DC signals (good thing) and can also galvanically isolate the two systems (so they will not be directly connected electronically). Same transformer/device can also be used in reverse direction – going from 500 series (balanced) back to modular inputs (unbalanced).

/* There are some more exceptions, for example Radial used to have a mixer module that had 4 unbalanced inputs and Moog’s 500 Delay has even CV input on a front panel, etc…

2 Likes
#132

Anyone have experience with the JHS Color Box in 500 series or pedal format?

Seems like a nice stepping stone for me to get some additional charecter before going all out on a lunchbox right now.

3 Likes
#133

I looked hard at JHS Color Box but opted for the slightly more expensive API Tranzformer instead. I’ve been extremely happy with it often preferring the DI tracks from it to the tracks that go through an amp. Internally it has an API Pre with the DOA’s(512), compressor(525), inductor EQ(553). Which is a bargain if you ask me.

2 Likes
#134

Dang, I didn’t know that existed. Definitely going to check it out.

#135

Finally pulled the trigger on a API 500-6B rack and 512v, hopefully it will be shipped by today.

I now understand that it does have some ‘requirement’ on mix buss application. The main reason is it required I/O from the audio interface that I don’t have, or I would eventually got much more noise floor in the printing process. Also I would want a interface that have got a DB25 bus 'cos I would like to have a better cable management. That being said for mix bus setting, it does required more that a rack and modules.

My next purchase will be API 550B, or if I don’t satisfied with 512v, I might get a 1073 pre clone (i.e. Heritage Audio 73 Jr II).

The comment sections made me realized all these. I also don’t think Scarrlett interface can handle the job well.

1 Like
#136

Well, I was a little skeptical tbh between getting a 500 series rack or a stereo rack geared more towards end of chain uses (e.g. Silver Bullet or Overstayer Modular Channel), but I just kind-of accidentally “won” a Rupert Never 6-space in an auction so :crazy_face:
Guess I will have to order a couple DIY projects for the New Year. I’m glad there’s so much useful knowledge in this thread, thanks everyone

4 Likes
#137

Usually some might consider the following criteria on the parts and PCB:

  • Discrete or non-discrete (Something those ICs are not involve to the audio signal path, it is still discrete)
  • SMD/ SMT or Thru-Hole
  • Brands of the components (i.e. Cinemag/ Carnhill transformer)