#21

-I really like the mixer as instrument idea and hope my two cents isn’t too much of a ramble…

I think a traditional layout with faders along with a small 3x3 or 4x4 matrix mixer would be cool, each fader strip could have switchable sends that rout the signal at that level to the relevant row of the matrix section ( 1 to one 2 to two 3 to three etc… ) … it’s always easy to explain things with pencil and paper to hand… the matrix mixer would need patch outs and / or switches for feedback loops… also what about the option to also control aspects of the mixer with your feet ( via cheap volume pedals and or foot-switches to toggle sends or mutes… ) -could be good for instrumentalists and add to it’s playability as an instrument with little additional cost ?..

I just saw that landline contraption… looks way cool. -The peg paradigm could be an interesting way to adapt grid control to a mixer-esque / module…?
I can imagine some eq-ed feedback loops between all those channels and a 64 with something like life or skr controlling virtual pegs

way far left field:

could the peaks and troughs in the signal of one channel control the through volume or sends in another channel and so on. like a re-routable envelope follower… with eq and delays it could allow for interesting timing and control relationships…
lastly on on a side note:
at sound crucible many years ago a simple mixer feedback and effects pedal setup created one of the most unreal drone-scapesqe live shows I’ve seen… eventually sympathetic vibrations in the roof scaffolds brought a rain of dust and panel remnants down on everyone… great ending, you kind of had to be there…

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#22

Mixer as an instrument: little scale.

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#23

@Simeon nice! when i first saw stuff like that i dove in and have been messing with it off and on for the past year…apparently the internal mechanics are similar to any other oscillator circuit

no input has become my favourite way to generate tones

i didnt record video of the patch, but recently made something this way https://phinery.bandcamp.com/track/there-is-one-above-us

4 channels and the 2 aux tied to each other and aleph in feedback
i was able to adjust “pitch” with volume faders + the pan, eq, aux, and gain pots

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#24

this is a great thread

been re-reading the OP and everyone elses thoughts…despite the title this has grown to encompass the-state-of-live-electronic-sound and dynamic performance of such music (so i no longer feel out of place chiming in despite being gridless)

working my way backwards and addressing the possible mixer tehn & co are working on:

  1. am i the only one who would favour 3.5mm and/or banana jacks along with 1/4" and XLR per channel? not sure about the technical side of things but i’d kill to have a mixer with built in i/o in all the formats i use

  2. duncan is right about faders

  3. any pots should be large and placed in a manner that is genuinely playable . sacrifice the number of channels if necessary

#25

someday i’d really like to make landline a reality. those little pin matrix things are really expensive. it would be great to do an illuminated button version (much like the 4ms VCAmatrix). unfortunately i have been too busy to spend any time on developing it lately. :frowning:
maybe some kind soul would want to help me make it happen.

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#26

my standard mixer for live shows is a mackie 802 VLZ3.
it’s rock solid, low noise, and (fairly) flexible. i’ve traveled with it internationally with no problems.
i really don’t have any major complaints with it…

except that i just don’t love it.

functionally it’s totally fine but it doesn’t feel like an instrument like the rest of my ever changing live rig. it just ends up being the slab of metal with all the knobs on it that i know i have to bring along to every show. i appreciate it for what it is but it’s never something that i want to be using. i am always looking online for compact mixers that are well designed and i always just wind up back at the 802.

it’s nice to know that i’m not alone with being dissatisfied with the current mixer offerings out there.

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#27

i too am more of a fader-head than a knobhead (<-hehe)
always wish for more mixers to be built with crossfaders between adjacent channels(i like cuts/stabs as well as longer fades)… but that might be irrelevant here.
cool thread.

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#28

I love the idea of the simple hardware mixer as an instrument. I think it would also be interesting (as knobs and/vs faders have been discussed) to look at the Acousmonium, where the mixer is an integral part of the performance and faders enable the player to move sounds around speakers with all ten fingers. Or elbows…

#29

This has also got me thinking about Alessandro Cortini’s way of “playing” a four track cassette recorder. I’ve messed around with this technique at home and never got anything other than a bit of fun out of it, but a beautiful and “instrumental” mixer could really turn that kind of unsync’d mixing into a very expressive way of making music.

Price is always going to be the issue here though, eh? A quality, monome-style enclosure with excellent components in a mixer format could easily be 3 times the cost to produce than a grid of buttons.

#30

possibly, but on the other hand don’t underestimate the cost of our keypads!

this is a totally different conversation, but i see simply a different metric when comparing a mass-produced object (mackie/behringer) with a tiny-run (100-500 units) instrument-- and this is a very difficult proposition given you can get a cheap mixer for so little (i got a tiny utility xenyx502 for $39 new??).

on the other hand, the newest 128 grid is absolutely price competitive with the push.

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#31

Oh, quality-wise your gear has always been competitive. And I’ve bought second-hand, making it even more economical! :blush:

Comparing mass-production prices, the grid prices aren’t that different. launchpad mini / monome grid for example.

I guess that there are already companies that make ultra high end bespoke mixers with a traditional design, it’s making something new and creative and inspirational that’s the challenge.

#32

A modular mixer would be pretty crazy. Something like the pitsburg cell will interchangble channel strips of varying quantity and features (I.e. Knobs v faders, different eq’s v filters, various input and output configuration as mentioned above)

Like mini modular neve shit

Also I thought the timing of this was a bit funny/coincidental to this here discussion

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#33

The Tonelux VRack is as close as I’ve seen to a modular mixer… that said modularity and pedigree has its costs A small setup adds up quickly and still ends up the size of a small eurorack system.

#34

Yeah, you could do a similarly expensive setup with 500 series but I’ve never seen the appeal of a second mortgage on my house.

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#35

Recordable flying faders without a DAW, is what I want in a mini-mixer. Never gonna happen though.

#36

as i’m constantly learning about how music works, what is your opinion of these 2 mixers, in the context of this conversation:

http://www.roland.com/products/m-10mx/

http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/k-mix/

i’ve used the roland mixer for years now, completely in love with it. especially as its battery powered.

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#37

I’ll just leave this here.

image.jpeg709×551 120 KB

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#38

Tasty!

Reminds me of the RANE rotary DJ Mixer:
http://dj.rane.com/products/mp2015-mixer

Much as I love getting my hands on some knobs, faders are more practical, both visually and for controlling multiple faders at once.

#39

Ok @tehn here goes …

The 128 is the mixing surface. And the metering surface.

It plugs in to a seperate I/O box that has all the audio connections, power, maybe secondary knobs.

I’m sure there’s max monome mixer apps out there as a reference.

Straight away there’s 16 channels, with 8 step resolution. Varibright can give higher resolutions.

Dedicate a column to mode / page changes.
Dedicate a col to the master channel.
Two cols for the fx return levels.
So down to 12 columns, ie channels. Plenty. Could be 6 stereo pairs.

Mode Page 1 : mixer levels.
Page 2 : pan
Page 3 : mute / solo ?
Page 4 : aux send
You get the idea.

You could certainly mock this up in max, with a MIDI controlled mixer … But I have no skills in the former and I don’t have one of the latter either.

We don’t need a mixer. We need a slight rethinking of the aleph as an I/O hub?..

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#40

Having gigged using a launchpad as a mixer, I can say that 8 step resolution at gig volumes is very noticeable. I’m sure you could use the limitation creatively, but I’d wince every time I “faded” a channel out! The main reason that I swapped to an APC for ableton duties live.

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