That’s really something… I will put it on my list to check out for sure.

Don’t get me wrong, it can’t do any of the long delay stuff the Mimeophon could do. It’s a good substitute for short weird stuff though, and it’s 100% a better reverb.

1 Like

Ive never thought of the Mimeophon as a reverb. It can do chorus, flange, some minimal spacial stuff, but would never classify it as a reverb, especially when compared to something like the Desmodus Versio, which classifies itself as their take on reverb. Mmv though.

2 Likes

Yeah, maybe a bit biased by my own use of it :slight_smile: I agree that Mimeophon isn’t presented as reverb. With the halo it’s definitely playing in that kinda pseudo-reverb Blackhole territory though, and that’s where I’d draw the parallel with the DV.

2 Likes

Fair enough… I would probably use DV as a delay as much as a reverb :slight_smile:

2 Likes

I have one of these, which I got for guitar. It’s ok for that, but I have yet to try it on synth…

Are you running it in mono or stereo and are you using it as end of chain or bringing it back into your modular, assuming that you’re even using it with modular?

1 Like

I run out of the modular in stereo/line level via MN Rosie, into the Nova Reverb, then to final destination (PA, interface, etc). End of chain. Works well for my needs🙂

1 Like

I rather like the Mimeophon reverb. A bit like a send to fixed chamber on early 60s records.

It blends with the source well, better than most Eurorack or guitar pedal reverbs, which sit on top of the sound, and are typically overused, detracting from the arrangement. I prefer the overall tone of Mimeophon to Erbe Verb, which is the other reverb in Eurorack that also blends really well, even if it gets rather metallic sometimes.

Mimeophon’s ability to have dark almost gooey delays I find more musical and similar to old digital rack delays, and the halo effect is complementary.

One thing I don’t like at all about the Mimeophon, though, is the built in noise gate, more so than the high noise floor which is bad but doesn’t impose itself on the user with artifacts.

That said, Versio is appealing as a DSP platform, and like everything NE does has personality.

5 Likes

Anybody using a hardware high pass filter before a reverb pedal in a mixer effects loop? Especially with a pedal that technically isn’t “dry kill”/100% wet (EQD Transmisser)? It’s been a hypothetical for a while, but unsure if it would be worthwhile.

1 Like

It’s one of my favorite features in the OTO BAM. If you don’t use it, it just feels like you inevitably get low end mush when you start adding tracks together.

2 Likes

One reason to consider the BAM is that the I/O is true stereo, and I’m not sure about the Chase Bliss Pedal. I’ve owned some older lexicon gear and I feel like the BAM is a perfect recreation of that (more PCM70/80 than 224, but still).

I love Chase Bliss though (so much that their pedals have me playing guitar again), I’m probably going to find some way to spring for that 1978 pedal as well. I have their Dark World, which I like, but I feel that the Keeley electronics side is a bit too much of a vanilla Spin FV-1 sound (guessing their new pedal will be Spin FV-1 based, as is the BAM, but the FV-1 only really has a “sound” if you use their generic reverb libraries).

Anyway, I think you’d be happy with either, but I wouldn’t hold your breath for the CB pedal, because they are already behind schedule with releasing it (as are everyone right now, no disrespect to CB), and supply-chain/manufacturing issues are almost always harder when you release something than later on. Also, again, if stereo matters, keep in mind that all previous CB products (including the automatone) have been mono.

1 Like

One thing I find disappointing (and with many throwback reverb plugins), BAM doesn’t push the envelope much in terms of algorithms, it instead excels in comparison vs other small format fx that have either no vibe or sound pasted on, e.g. Strymon Big Sky or the average reverb guitar pedal. For many years, newer rack reverb designs made technical improvements toward a more enveloping sound, and improved early reflection modeling. BAM just sounds like an old Lexicon, sort of. There is a shootout on GS where you can hear a PCM 81 just blends with the source better.

So if I had to choose for recording, and I wanted a retro sound, I’d still take an old Lexicon every time, or an Eventide 2016 (personally I don’t like the sci fi-sounding Eventide reverbs as much).

BAM still sounds really good, however, which is enough for live and it’s not like it won’t enhance recording.

I tend to prefer non-innovative delays, myself, to be honest. But then you see Mimeophon is both throwback in tone and innovative in algorithmic function at the same time, same with Erbe Verb to some degree. That is ideal.

With reverbs, I like a little more innovation, especially with early reflections or room resonances. For room/stage emulation, BAM is arcane in comparison to a TC 4000 or Bricasti or Quantec Yardstick for example. Missed opportunity, but that is only my own perspective.

2 Likes

I’m pretty sure that BAM is intentionally arcane. The maker wrote about the time he spent researching many early reverb algorithms before working on the design. There’s fixed-point processing to achieve the same truncation ‘sound’ as the early units.

I think that verbs are significantly subjective, and so I wouldn’t try to make a this v that. I’ve used BAM for sound design and end of chain for live shows. For mixing, I just haven’t gotten around to trying it - but every reverb can be blended and processed to work. I don’t think I use any reverb in a mix without modification of some sort.

For mixing, I’ve been using SP2016, Raum, TSAR-1, and even use Valhalla Delay when I need something with low density or a certain effect.

Most recent fascination is Transatlantic Plate though :blush:

3 Likes

I know that it was a conscious design decision (forgive my saltiness before I edited this).

What you say about every reverb being blended and processed with filters and so on is not what I mean. Of course that can help, but I mean that the reverb algorithm all by itself melds with the sound source, which you hear very much so on the PCM81 example.

Like I said, BAM still sounds better than a lot of options in that regard. Just not as good as the real Lexicon. It is a pretty obvious difference.

Of the plugins you named that I know well, I like SP2016 a lot (not the old version which is okay), and Valhalla Delay (I much prefer Sean’s approach with more recent plugins, when he started with Color control on Vintageverb). I think SP2016 sounds better than any of the standard algorithms in the H9 - excepting the crazier Space stuff which is too different and not my thing - which makes sense, because the modeling is more advanced and the original 2016 hardware unit is just a better reverb for rooms especially than their later stuff. Eventide’s H910 sounds great too, and that is also more recent modeling.

In terms of melding with source, my favorite reverbs ITB are Relab’s LX480 and VSR S24 (both of which have certain innovations over the 480L and TC 6000 reverb models), Exponential Audio/Izotope Nimbus (much a new sound but in lineage of designer Carnes’ PCM96), and the UAD 480L. Also u-he’s Protoverb, which is the closest thing to a Quantec resonance model, but which usually requires bus filtering and is not a finished product.

I think those are essentially fair points, but are also missing some of the most important features that BAM has:

  1. It’s performance oriented. If you’ve used a PCM 80/81, you’ll remember that you are basically moving through sub menus and selecting values with a step encoder. Even if you are aren’t going to make any changes in real time, you can dial in a sound way faster. Most of the time, I’m not even thinking about it, I just make alterations, swap the algorithm if necessary and I’m instantly at something I can use on a record.

  2. It’s partially analog. It isn’t just an FV-1 in a box. It emulates input transformers, it has analog filters, it has analog gain, etc. These were features of the 70s/80s lexicon that were missing on the 90s. Similarly, it is stereo which the 80s Lexicon stuff was not. For me the BAM is a sort of hybrid of those eras.

  3. It’s modern, small and can be repaired. The early Lexicon stuff cannot.

I’m not saying either one is better, but I ended up trading my PCM80 for a Ensoniq DP4 and keeping the BAM because I was getting essentially the same sound with the BAM and not having to rely on presets (also because the DP4 sounds weird and nothing emulates it). One big plus is balanced I/O on the PCM80/81. I definitely get what you mean about innovation, but the way I think of it, it has been easy to get hands-on versions of synths that were originally very menu divey for a long time, but this and the new Chase Bliss pedal are bringing back the Lexicon PCM224/LARC approach which is exciting and allows them to be more like instruments again.

I would also love a bricasti though…

One last thing, as far as melding with the source, I know what you mean, and I know that’s signature lexicon, but I actually use it in tandem with the sounds I am designing with the source, so I never have that problem. To be honest, I never used either on my main bus very much. I prefer to go in the box for that and be able to change it after I am done mixing.

1 Like

Yes, 1) is the strongest point in it’s favor for sure. The tails cut off on the BAM switching is the only weak part.

I know 2). All that is cool, yes.
But nonetheless, the BAM despite its very appealing tone doesn’t meld as well as the real Lexicon, even a PCM96. And it’s not innovative really in any way from an algorithm point of view, other than sounding better than recent garbage pedals, to put it bluntly. But that’s a low bar.

3), yes, but then again Lexicon PCMs are not all that expensive, yet, and seem less prone to failure than their older stuff.

On your last paragraph, I can only approve of that method.

To sum up, I’d like someone to make a reverb that is both retro and innovative, purely in the algorithms before any control, which is only a plus. I expect the new Bricasti cheaper fx box will deliver exactly that on the algorithm front, if it ever comes out. I also think Make Noise have the best approach, in terms of design philosophy. But that is only my own opinion. I’m not saying the BAM isn’t a good reverb, just being honest in personal evaluation when people say it sounds like a Lexicon era reverb.

1 Like

Frankly I don’t “get” the Bricasti love. It’s trying very hard to be a very clean, quiet, real-world reverb much like an actual acoustic space, which I suppose is quite nice for some people, but to me that’s just not the point of reverb in a mix - which is to effectively spatialize a part so that it “fits” in the mental imagery of the space appropriately - nor the point of reverb in sound design, which is to accommodate the sound for creative purposes, usually involving being quite malleable and often a very audible component of the sound. To me, the best thing one can say about the Bricasti is that you don’t notice it until it’s gone, but that’s not really a particularly excellent quality of a reverb, and as you say the 2016 (and I would argue many of the Eventide algorithms, when used carefully - we differ on this point, admittedly) and vintage Lexicons do this as well. To me, Bricastis are “just another flavour” of reverb, not a better one nor a worse one, and a very mild, sedate, and rather “produced” sound to boot, especially given the price tag.

1 Like

Bricasti is the best reverb when you want to enhance the sound of real acoustic ensembles or tailor hall for film or video game score orchestra (along with flavor reverbs, like Eventide, for otherworldly effects). When you need full spatial preservation and of bass frequencies for example - a lot of reverbs fail at this.

Or a room for a drum set or stage for a soloist, when you want a naturalistic sound with meld and bloom of controllable early (“early select”) reflections (not just simple delay lines), and not a parallel-compressed blown out car commercial rock sound a la Black Keys.

I think that is a pretty big category to excel in. TC VSS4 no slouch either with early reflection control.

Most of the older reverbs have rather pedestrian early reflection control and like convolution can be very hit or miss in the above scenarios, or simply color the sound too much for the genre, like classical piano, for instance.

If you don’t work in above categories, then you’re not going to appreciate the utility the way people who do do. The point is entirely different. You don’t fit an orchestra or string quartet “in the mix,” you are working with actual stereo mic capture with spot mics, not a bunch of panned mono sources, or shelved overheads and so on. Go to vi-control and ask them what they think. Or ask foley artist.

Fortunately, Bricasti is making a newer cheaper M200 box for more fx uses, and they have responded in past to user input for certain algorithm styles. That should be more fun if it ever comes out, and would probably work better for electronic too.

I love all good reverbs for different reasons. But that said there are superior designs for emulating real spaces.

2 Likes

Yeah, that overproduced “big studio” sound is the opposite of what I tend to enjoy, so that’s probably it. I really don’t see a benefit to adding any reverb to an orchestral recording - IMO the point of capturing an orchestra is to capture the orchestra as it was, in that particular setting. Anything else is like gilding a lily. And since that does seem to be the context in which Bricastis are revered, I concede that I don’t value what it brings to the table. :slight_smile: Strokes for folks, and all that.

2 Likes

I don’t mean big studio sound necessarily. Certainly don’t mean overproduced, quite the opposite.

That’s true in theory, but what if you’re the Berlin Philharmonic and can’t always record in Jesus-Christus-Kirche. Or you want to blend your spot or soloist mics. Or you’re dealing with a shitty orchestral pit. There are even Haitink recordings in the magnificent Concertgebouw that have reverb enhancement, if you can believe it.

Film scoring, your needs change a lot, so you need hall manipulation or lots of sample libraries.

1 Like