The trend of keeping the controller tilted towards the audience, or the woes of performing live with electronic instruments

mlogger · 2018-09-15T02:55:38.424Z

analogue01:

Pointless, a pitch black performance is not a performance, it’s an installation that belongs in a museum or art gallery. They might think that is quite smart and high art, but what I feel they are doing is patronising the audience. Its inferring that audiences that go to the shows don’t fully listen to the music and that you can concentrate and listen to the music better in the dark. They are trying to teach you how to listen.

Playing/listening in the dark is central to the acousmatic tradition . The idea isn’t that you don’t know how to listen and they need to show you, it’s simply that listening happens differently when other senses are denied. Sure there are all kinds of philosophical problems with this (the assumption of an ideal listener, problematic notions of purity, etc…), but it’s a historically crucial idea to the development of almost the entire field of electronic music (and links the development of electronic music to important 20th c. philosophical movements like phenomenology).

What Autechre do is import the acousmatic tradition into the context of all night raves and electro dance parties. In a sense, it’s the opposite of patronizing. It’s a flattening of “high” and “low” cultures, neither prioritized over the other. A lot of what’s interesting about their work comes from the tensions in that gesture. Whether or not they are really “performing” or not is beside the point.

Thanks for the historical info, and like I said before, playing in the dark is nothing new or original or different. I do have the option of closing my eyes.

In my opinion live performance should be about trying out new, interesting, original ideas, both visibly and sonically, not old ones. Times have moved on, I like to look forwards not backwards and challenge outdated ideas. I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

Live music and live performance does not move forward if we continue to copy what was done in the past.

Looks like what Autechre have done here is followed tradition visually, whilst continue to move forward sonically.

DMR · 2018-09-15T03:20:42.826Z

To me, the desire to avoid laptop computers during performance relies on ignorance on the part of the audience, in terms of knowing how each piece of equipment operates. Laptop performances are seen as boring, ‘checking email’, etc. because everyone in the audience is familiar with a laptop computer, knows how it works, etc. Other pieces of music equipment seem more interesting because they are obscure. Is a person scrolling through menus and staring at the screen of an Elektron Octatrack somehow more interesting than doing the same on a laptop / midi controller? From performances I have seen, I would say no. But I think the former is more likely to be seen as authentic by a naive person.

greaterthanzero · 2018-09-15T07:27:53.924Z

DMR:

To me, the desire to avoid laptop computers during performance relies on ignorance on the part of the audience, in terms of knowing how each piece of equipment operates.

Quite the opposite here. It comes from watching each other play, fully aware of what goes into the process, and trusting that the audience will be excited about what excites us.

Laptop performances are seen as boring, ‘checking email’, etc. because everyone in the audience is familiar with a laptop computer, knows how it works, etc. Other pieces of music equipment seem more interesting because they are obscure.

Guitars aren’t obscure.

Drums aren’t obscure.

A microphone isn’t obscure.

What they are is more visual.

A laptop isn’t visual.

There’s a physical barrier between the audience and what you’re doing.

That’s the difference.

It’s not rocket science.

greaterthanzero · 2018-09-15T07:47:10.826Z

I look down too much. Not metaphorically or in judgement, but literally and physically. I don’t have enough faith that my fingers will land where I need them to, and I haven’t set up a situation where that’s easy or unimportant.

Having watched myself on video from every conceivable angle, I know without a shadow of a doubt that it’s better to see my face than the top of my head. And people usually get the top of my head.

Tilting my controller is, in part, a way to compensate for that. It lets us all look at the same thing.

I think what I want on stage is to point a camera at my hands, and to put that feed onto a large screen right next to me.

It’s unlikely to ever happen, but that might be ideal.

KristofferLislegaard · 2018-09-15T10:26:29.217Z

In my opinion live performance should be about trying out new, interesting, original ideas, both visibly and sonically, not old ones. Times have moved on, I like to look forwards not backwards and challenge outdated ideas. I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

@mlogger Do you have any exsamples of anyone doing that? And how are they doing it?
People have been improvising with modular for a few decades now btw.

A laptop isn’t visual.
There’s a physical barrier between the audience and what you’re doing.

Tilting my controller is, in part, a way to compensate for that. It lets us all look at the same thing.

So it finally comes back to the title of the thread.

lijnenspel · 2018-09-15T10:36:04.189Z

DMR:

‘checking email’

Note to self: build a web extension which turns gmails interface into a musical instrument. The performance will then consists of me sending demos, receiving rejections and answering ridiculous book requests, all live on stage.

Would that be transparent (visual?) enough?

Jonny · 2018-09-15T12:41:02.579Z

mlogger:

I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

Some believe that you should deprive certain senses. The real question here is, does the performance have an effect on you? What we’ve learned in this discussion is that it’s different for everybody.

Tim Hecker keeps coming up in this thread, but he has carefully considered these things and the experience of the audience - he talks quite a bit about it in a red bull interview. Fog is an interesting intermediate between clarity and darkness. Since we’re talking about the senses, he’s the only person I know of who has given thought to using perfumes and releasing scents during the show.

mlogger · 2018-09-15T12:42:26.015Z

KristofferLislegaard:

In my opinion live performance should be about trying out new, interesting, original ideas, both visibly and sonically, not old ones. Times have moved on, I like to look forwards not backwards and challenge outdated ideas. I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

@mlogger Do you have any exsamples of anyone doing that? And how are they doing it?
People have been improvising with modular for a few decades now btw.

A laptop isn’t visual.
There’s a physical barrier between the audience and what you’re doing.

Tilting my controller is, in part, a way to compensate for that. It lets us all look at the same thing.

So it finally comes back to the title of the thread.

I don’t really see this about a comparison between modular synths vs laptops. It can be anything vs laptops. If your playing a laptop gig, all I say is do something interesting with the visuals because looking at a person hiding behind a black square is not interesting to the audience.

For example, put the screen flat to the surface and stand up or project the screen behind you so the audience can see what you are doing. The same can be said hidden behind any piece of music instrument that prohibits the audience viewing, such as a modular - the audience want to know what you are doing.

As soon as you have flipped that laptop screen up, you have created a barrier between you and the audience. Even before you have started to play, the audience already have preconditioned ideas about what to expect - ie “he’s not really playing live” “he’s cheating” “oh, it’s laptop gig, I thought he was bringing his Serge” “it’s not a real gig, it’s a dj gig”.

I like what is happening in the diy video synth and vector synthesis world. People like Derek Holzer - http://macumbista.net/ and Jonas Bers - Media |

This is Jonas Bers using hacked diy analog video synthesis and a modular.

Claude · 2018-09-15T13:05:27.014Z

I’m just going to jump in. I play my 6U modular on a keyboard stand. I’m 6’4" tall and refuse to hunch over a table. Standing up straight is important to me, particularly to my lower back. From the audience’s perspective it looks like I’m playing a box, which I suppose I am. I am fortunate to tend to play with other musicians, which adds a great deal to the package because I tend to look like I’m playing chess…in a box.

I tend to patch from scratch, or start off with what I come up with during soundcheck, so the patching and wiggling gets some attention from the audience. I hear regularly that people like trying to connect what they see me do with what they hear. My approach tends to be about the human exploration of sound, so maybe a cape would help me more than tipping my rig towards the audience?

Forgive this shameless example:

sandy · 2018-09-15T13:58:39.758Z

Thanks for sharing that Jonas Bers video.
Love the combination of sound and visuals in it.

Shiftr · 2018-09-15T16:46:49.386Z

In the Netherlands you’ve got a few regular modular synthesizer concert nights. Noodlebar in Rotterdam and Modulation in Utrecht. At both these events the performers are always standing in de middle of the room and the audience is sitting and standing around them. I think this a really nice way to perform for modular. And I’ve also seen a performance of Pete Edwards twice where he is also in the middle of the audience and asks everybody to come standing really close almost bend over his equipment. This was a really experience. But i think it will only work up to a 100 people or so.

https://www.dutchmodularfest.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Modulation-1280x854.jpg

Starthief · 2018-09-15T17:32:22.052Z

If I were ever to play out, that’s how I would want to do it. Gawk at my gear and watch what I’m doing, so I can concentrate on making music instead of trying to visually entertain the audience and feeling self-conscious

When I performed in a taiko group, the creative director always said how we looked was more important than how we sounded. It really was all about big movements, choreography, and stage presence. I discovered I don’t really want to perform but to create music.

Claude · 2018-09-15T18:00:04.217Z

Totally valid point about wanting to create music vs performing it. I really love performing and see my practice as exploring/preparing to perform or performing. Even my recorded works are live improvisations. I guess one of my hopes is to participate in performances that are interesting enough that the specifics of what exactly I’m doing with the box and the colorful spaghetti are only a small part of the overall experience. Gearheads will always be interested in gear, others tend to be curious, occasionally someone is suspicious, but I would romantically hope the music could be the focal point…a little intrigue and sparking some curiosity about the specifics of equipment is a great conversation starter, if you are into that.

anon45924993 · 2018-09-16T02:05:18.984Z

hyena:

well of course Jason, but from a practical viewpoint the difference is there !

In my experience the difference becomes less pronounced the more time you spend straddling the two worlds.

analogue01 · 2018-09-17T16:59:45.349Z

SD: I often struggle in live situations with the attitude that the music is not enough to listen to on its own, that the audience will grow tired throughout long-form pieces, and that having an arbitrary visual component playing in the background will help keep everyone engaged. I reject this attitude fundamentally - if the audience grows bored during an unaccompanied musical performance, it’s probably stemming from an issue with our society’s ingrained patience level toward sound, and I think that that’s something very much worth undoing. By “unintentional” pairing I simply am referring to situations where I am approached about just throwing on some random visual element without any forethought, which usually happens during my soundcheck. I always say “no” to these requests.

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gaeel · 2018-09-17T19:48:34.005Z

My first and only time playing music on stage was a live-coded byte beat act, and some people came up later and told me they would have liked to see what was happening on my screen
There where visuals projected to the wall behind me that were being VJ’d by a friend, so I figured that would be good enough for them, especially since all there was on my screen was a mathematical formula being edited and a few buttons to switch to another formula as the set went on

Nobody (that I know of) was accusing me of cheating or not really playing, but there certainly was a portion of the crowd that wanted to at least have an idea what it was I was doing back there
I’m working on a more visually interesting version of this set, that I’ll feel happy displaying on a screen, but that might not be a reasonable option for all performers who happen to use a technique that isn’t fun to watch, so maybe there are ways to communicate “this isn’t really interesting to look at, maybe just enjoy the sounds?”

anon45924993 · 2019-12-30T02:16:59.537Z

Ergonomics, continued.

markel_m · 2019-12-30T11:43:37.973Z

Just read through a great part of this topic, and it’s been very interesting! It reminded me of when I saw Anika Nilles in Stockholm at a master class event last year, and someone asked why she had the cymbals tilted towards the audience, since that’s rather unusual. She said that Meinl was sponsoring her and that they had requested that so that the audience could see she was using their cymbals.

Never thought about that, I guess it’s only relevant in a context where the audience is likely to be made up of mostly musicians or specifically drummers in this case.

onewayness · 2020-01-02T19:23:17.064Z

Rather than tilting controllers, what I tend to do is face my table side-on or slightly away from the crowd, so that my workspace is somewhat “open” and exposed and theoretically welcoming, rather than being my little gear fort I hide behind.

KristofferLislegaard · 2020-01-02T19:29:57.774Z

I have been tilting less lately:

instagram.com

Kristoffer Lislegaard

28 Likes, 3 Comments - Kristoffer Lislegaard (@lislegaard) on Instagram: “Hærverk 3. #maxmspjitter #maxmsp #max8 #ableton #ambient #music #improvisedmusic #art”