The trend of keeping the controller tilted towards the audience, or the woes of performing live with electronic instruments

KristofferLislegaard · 2018-09-15T10:26:29.217Z

In my opinion live performance should be about trying out new, interesting, original ideas, both visibly and sonically, not old ones. Times have moved on, I like to look forwards not backwards and challenge outdated ideas. I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

@mlogger Do you have any exsamples of anyone doing that? And how are they doing it?
People have been improvising with modular for a few decades now btw.

A laptop isn’t visual.
There’s a physical barrier between the audience and what you’re doing.

Tilting my controller is, in part, a way to compensate for that. It lets us all look at the same thing.

So it finally comes back to the title of the thread.

lijnenspel · 2018-09-15T10:36:04.189Z

DMR:

‘checking email’

Note to self: build a web extension which turns gmails interface into a musical instrument. The performance will then consists of me sending demos, receiving rejections and answering ridiculous book requests, all live on stage.

Would that be transparent (visual?) enough?

Jonny · 2018-09-15T12:41:02.579Z

mlogger:

I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

Some believe that you should deprive certain senses. The real question here is, does the performance have an effect on you? What we’ve learned in this discussion is that it’s different for everybody.

Tim Hecker keeps coming up in this thread, but he has carefully considered these things and the experience of the audience - he talks quite a bit about it in a red bull interview. Fog is an interesting intermediate between clarity and darkness. Since we’re talking about the senses, he’s the only person I know of who has given thought to using perfumes and releasing scents during the show.

mlogger · 2018-09-15T12:42:26.015Z

KristofferLislegaard:

In my opinion live performance should be about trying out new, interesting, original ideas, both visibly and sonically, not old ones. Times have moved on, I like to look forwards not backwards and challenge outdated ideas. I believe a live performance should stimulate all your senses, not just one.

@mlogger Do you have any exsamples of anyone doing that? And how are they doing it?
People have been improvising with modular for a few decades now btw.

A laptop isn’t visual.
There’s a physical barrier between the audience and what you’re doing.

Tilting my controller is, in part, a way to compensate for that. It lets us all look at the same thing.

So it finally comes back to the title of the thread.

I don’t really see this about a comparison between modular synths vs laptops. It can be anything vs laptops. If your playing a laptop gig, all I say is do something interesting with the visuals because looking at a person hiding behind a black square is not interesting to the audience.

For example, put the screen flat to the surface and stand up or project the screen behind you so the audience can see what you are doing. The same can be said hidden behind any piece of music instrument that prohibits the audience viewing, such as a modular - the audience want to know what you are doing.

As soon as you have flipped that laptop screen up, you have created a barrier between you and the audience. Even before you have started to play, the audience already have preconditioned ideas about what to expect - ie “he’s not really playing live” “he’s cheating” “oh, it’s laptop gig, I thought he was bringing his Serge” “it’s not a real gig, it’s a dj gig”.

I like what is happening in the diy video synth and vector synthesis world. People like Derek Holzer - http://macumbista.net/ and Jonas Bers - Media |

This is Jonas Bers using hacked diy analog video synthesis and a modular.

Claude · 2018-09-15T13:05:27.014Z

I’m just going to jump in. I play my 6U modular on a keyboard stand. I’m 6’4" tall and refuse to hunch over a table. Standing up straight is important to me, particularly to my lower back. From the audience’s perspective it looks like I’m playing a box, which I suppose I am. I am fortunate to tend to play with other musicians, which adds a great deal to the package because I tend to look like I’m playing chess…in a box.

I tend to patch from scratch, or start off with what I come up with during soundcheck, so the patching and wiggling gets some attention from the audience. I hear regularly that people like trying to connect what they see me do with what they hear. My approach tends to be about the human exploration of sound, so maybe a cape would help me more than tipping my rig towards the audience?

Forgive this shameless example:

sandy · 2018-09-15T13:58:39.758Z

Thanks for sharing that Jonas Bers video.
Love the combination of sound and visuals in it.

Shiftr · 2018-09-15T16:46:49.386Z

In the Netherlands you’ve got a few regular modular synthesizer concert nights. Noodlebar in Rotterdam and Modulation in Utrecht. At both these events the performers are always standing in de middle of the room and the audience is sitting and standing around them. I think this a really nice way to perform for modular. And I’ve also seen a performance of Pete Edwards twice where he is also in the middle of the audience and asks everybody to come standing really close almost bend over his equipment. This was a really experience. But i think it will only work up to a 100 people or so.

https://www.dutchmodularfest.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Modulation-1280x854.jpg

Starthief · 2018-09-15T17:32:22.052Z

If I were ever to play out, that’s how I would want to do it. Gawk at my gear and watch what I’m doing, so I can concentrate on making music instead of trying to visually entertain the audience and feeling self-conscious

When I performed in a taiko group, the creative director always said how we looked was more important than how we sounded. It really was all about big movements, choreography, and stage presence. I discovered I don’t really want to perform but to create music.

Claude · 2018-09-15T18:00:04.217Z

Totally valid point about wanting to create music vs performing it. I really love performing and see my practice as exploring/preparing to perform or performing. Even my recorded works are live improvisations. I guess one of my hopes is to participate in performances that are interesting enough that the specifics of what exactly I’m doing with the box and the colorful spaghetti are only a small part of the overall experience. Gearheads will always be interested in gear, others tend to be curious, occasionally someone is suspicious, but I would romantically hope the music could be the focal point…a little intrigue and sparking some curiosity about the specifics of equipment is a great conversation starter, if you are into that.

anon45924993 · 2018-09-16T02:05:18.984Z

hyena:

well of course Jason, but from a practical viewpoint the difference is there !

In my experience the difference becomes less pronounced the more time you spend straddling the two worlds.

analogue01 · 2018-09-17T16:59:45.349Z

SD: I often struggle in live situations with the attitude that the music is not enough to listen to on its own, that the audience will grow tired throughout long-form pieces, and that having an arbitrary visual component playing in the background will help keep everyone engaged. I reject this attitude fundamentally - if the audience grows bored during an unaccompanied musical performance, it’s probably stemming from an issue with our society’s ingrained patience level toward sound, and I think that that’s something very much worth undoing. By “unintentional” pairing I simply am referring to situations where I am approached about just throwing on some random visual element without any forethought, which usually happens during my soundcheck. I always say “no” to these requests.

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gaeel · 2018-09-17T19:48:34.005Z

My first and only time playing music on stage was a live-coded byte beat act, and some people came up later and told me they would have liked to see what was happening on my screen
There where visuals projected to the wall behind me that were being VJ’d by a friend, so I figured that would be good enough for them, especially since all there was on my screen was a mathematical formula being edited and a few buttons to switch to another formula as the set went on

Nobody (that I know of) was accusing me of cheating or not really playing, but there certainly was a portion of the crowd that wanted to at least have an idea what it was I was doing back there
I’m working on a more visually interesting version of this set, that I’ll feel happy displaying on a screen, but that might not be a reasonable option for all performers who happen to use a technique that isn’t fun to watch, so maybe there are ways to communicate “this isn’t really interesting to look at, maybe just enjoy the sounds?”

anon45924993 · 2019-12-30T02:16:59.537Z

Ergonomics, continued.

markel_m · 2019-12-30T11:43:37.973Z

Just read through a great part of this topic, and it’s been very interesting! It reminded me of when I saw Anika Nilles in Stockholm at a master class event last year, and someone asked why she had the cymbals tilted towards the audience, since that’s rather unusual. She said that Meinl was sponsoring her and that they had requested that so that the audience could see she was using their cymbals.

Never thought about that, I guess it’s only relevant in a context where the audience is likely to be made up of mostly musicians or specifically drummers in this case.

onewayness · 2020-01-02T19:23:17.064Z

Rather than tilting controllers, what I tend to do is face my table side-on or slightly away from the crowd, so that my workspace is somewhat “open” and exposed and theoretically welcoming, rather than being my little gear fort I hide behind.

KristofferLislegaard · 2020-01-02T19:29:57.774Z

I have been tilting less lately:

instagram.com

Kristoffer Lislegaard

28 Likes, 3 Comments - Kristoffer Lislegaard (@lislegaard) on Instagram: “Hærverk 3. #maxmspjitter #maxmsp #max8 #ableton #ambient #music #improvisedmusic #art”

xmacex · 2023-10-03T04:52:06.012Z

Reading Terre Thaemlitz’s The Crisis of Post-Spectacle “Live” Contemporary Ambient Performance
(Or… Why I Can’t Get Paid to DJ A-structural Audio) (comatose.com 1997)

It is largely assumed among producers and listeners that the performance of Contemporary Ambient music incorporates a strategic convolution of noise with composition, presenting listeners with experiential conditions that emphasize their own performance within a sonically active social theater, rather than suppressing their performance in favor of frontal spectacle. Similarly, it is well known that production methods for Contemporary Ambient music such as non-realtime computer synthesis typically involve processes which are not immediately reconcilable with conventional listener/virtuoso performance paradigms. However, when it comes to “live” Contemporary Ambient performance, there seems to be a great deal of regressive desire among producers, organizers and audiences for conventional stage-based performance.

(emphasis mine)

KristofferLislegaard · 2023-10-03T09:14:52.835Z

xmacex:

Reading Terre Thaemlitz’s The Crisis of Post-Spectacle “Live” Contemporary Ambient Performance
(Or… Why I Can’t Get Paid to DJ A-structural Audio) (comatose.com 1997)

Very interesting although not the easiest read (reminds me of my own thoughts / preferences / ideals around communication). Took me some time before I remembered we were in 1997, hehe!

Cromatica45:

Does an organ concert leave us cold for not seeing the performer?

This is actually a great point! I have been using the “you don’t see the keys on the grand piano concert anyways” example when discussing live electronic performance, but the organist (especially in a church) is a much better example!

SimonKirby · 2023-10-03T12:55:07.633Z

For some reason, at the last Wavetable here in Edinburgh, all three performers chose to play side on (Loula Yorke, Ian Boddy, and myself). I think it worked really nicely. We got to keep the ergonomic benefits of our sloped eurorack rigs, but also felt like there wasn’t a barrier between performer and audience. Particularly for my set, which involved playing notes live into the Push for some sections, it felt really nice to give the audience the possibility of seeing the relationship between my actions and the outcome. Also, because we weren’t facing the audience it felt somehow less like a “hey look at me up here on the stage” kind of asymmetry. I wasn’t expecting to like it, but it felt great - more like when people come and watch someone make something.

IOSISdrone · 2023-10-03T21:50:59.547Z

Cromatica45:

Does an organ concert leave us cold for not seeing the performer?

No, because we already inherently understand the gestural implications of what they are doing at that keyboard, i.e. press a key and sound comes out. Folks want/need for there to be a gestural relationship between what they are seeing and what they are hearing, which is arguably a huge reason why the electric guitar has become the iconic instrument that it is.

SimonKirby:

also felt like there wasn’t a barrier between performer and audienc

This is it right here. In any performance the lesser the barrier between performer and audience the more capable that artist will be of generating emotional impact within the audience. When an audience can not parse the visual gestures with the sound they’re hearing they will be significantly removed from the performer and the performance itself.

For these reasons and the reasons you’ve stated I perform offstage and with my back to the audience as much as possible, allowing folks to surround me and to get drawn into the performance alongside me.