#16

Off topic - what do you use to launch clips on the monome?

#17

Launchd on terms. It’s the best at the moment I think although what I trully feel it lacks is copy/paste/delete option (with a function key, it could be easily implemented but I don’t know if it’s doable regarding how live functions with M4L) Other than that it works really well for me. I know some prefer the older monobright clip launcher because it has mutes and solos but I do all that elsewhere and I’d rather have lots of clips to mix up live than waste grid surface with solo / mutes.

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#18

I bought the full version. It worked out to be around $50, but that’s still less than buying yet another piece of hardware ha.

And I felt a little less guilty when I emailed Lee (Sigabort) asking for his help getting it up and running. I won’t lie, it was a little tricky getting it up and running smooth, but Lee was incredibly generous and patient. My setup is pretty much settled for now. His videos on configuration will get you most of the way, but there were little things I found that helped that I’d be happy to share if you dive in again.

I took a quick peek at the Monome capabilities, but there was an issue with the Arc functionality that Lee eventually solved, but I had already moved on to the standard custom MIDI mapping action of Gridlock. I’m building a live set for a specific performance I have coming up and the Monome stuff in general seems a lil unstable, so I just stuck with MIDI for now as I need something rock solid for this specific project. But I’m excited to go back and play with it again, so many great Monome apps out there. And the using the 8 encoders is basically like having two Arcs, ha!

#19

I think its important to mention (even 5 years later(I’ve just gotten into the world of digital music after years of playing rock)) the Push was based on and inspired by the success of the Grid. Akai and Ableton have stated so themselves. Grid is an innovative design by an artisan tech builder and gear nerd and another person, a musician and artist, first probably built as a hobby project and then sold as a way of paying the bills. We should be thankful to Brian Crabtree and Kelli Cain for bringing this sort of thing. Push on the other hand, is a specialized piece of equipment built by a significant company that had the benefit of hindsight and of knowledge that only existed through monome’s experiments and community feedback.
Having a big company behind you means there is already a significant customer base, there is capital to get started, a product will be designed to be mass-produced, there may already be a factory ready to start production etc.
This means that the Push is simply a superior piece of tech.
The specific pairing with Ableton will be a great drawcard for Ableton users and probably a massive pain in the butt for non-ableton users but each of the pads light up in many different colours, they are pressure sensitive, there are touch sensitive knobs that also work as buttons, there is a ribbon controller, a screen AND the whole thing is only slightly more expensive than a Grid 128 and cheaper than a Grid 256.
You still have user mode so you can still make apps for it with Max/MSP, PD or even JS or Python (though its certainly not as easy or pleasant to do as withh the Grid) Except you have to use MIDI instead of OSC.
There are still things that differentiate them and reasons that the Grid may be more suitable.
I settled on a Grid largely because it communicates in OSC which is such a pleasant protocol to develop with (I’m studying software engineering and the Grid is the perfect product to exercise my combined interests.)
Also like other have said, Grid as more buttons and is a bit lighter.

Grid’s MAIN advantage at this is that it interfaces with modular stuff better, but I don’t even have any modular gear.

I’m very happy with my Grid but may get a Push in the future to leave in the studio when I’m mixing or producing with Ableton, IF Ableton enable better bussing and sub-grouping of channels, otherwise I will continue to mix in Protools or Logic that are superior for mixing for that reason.

#20

hey, welcome.

superior is a tricky word because everyone’s needs and goals are different. ableton is certainly superior at advertising. monome superior at openness. but what “superior tech” means is unclear-- i don’t want colors and i don’t want knobs, and some people don’t want eurorack connectivity.

14 Likes
#21

I don’t own either but I’m in a similar situation with researching the pros and cons of both.

The push seems great but I’m worried it may be overwhelming. I’ve learned that tools with a lot of features can be stifling to my work flow.

For me, a product made by a smaller company is a plus. Some of the best software and tools I use daily we’re created by individuals and open sourced without any corporate backing. Also, being able to interact with a company or individual and have your voice heard is amazing!

The simplicity and extensible of the monome grid is very alluring. Seems like the hardware equivalent of the Unix Philosophy. The less is literally more mentality :scream_cat:

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#22

In a pure “gearslutz attitude” I got both!:joy:

#23

On a more serious note I think that they’re aiming toward different uses.
Yes, they’re both controllers, but the similarities ends here.

Push it’s made for work flawlessly with Live in a traditional daw environment,
while the Grid it’s an open design that, although it needs some efforts, it could do many more things.

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#24

I started with a mk64. For 64 fingers and mlr primarily. Subsequently got a greyscale 128. Sold both and picked up a push as my workflow was based around ableton (still is). The push is now up for sale (would be gone but buyer on ebay didnt pay). This will be replaced by a varibright grid and ansible.

Thr push is very simple to use ans can be extended with alt firmware like nativekontrol and i believe this lets you use push 1 in other daws.

I picket up a novation circuit and it has taken on the role of controller, as it works in much the same way as i used the push. However it can also be used standalone and with the modular via midi-cv box.

Reason im looking st the grid again is the integration with the modular. @tehn has developed a really poweful ecosystem now and i love the interaction the grid provides to the modular realm.

Dunno if that helps, just my 2p :grinning:

#25

different things for different purposes… not superior/inferior.

I will add, Ableton (belatedly) opened up the Push 2 with the Push API, which is defined at a binary protocol level, so no concerns of proprietary apis, or license issues

this makes its quite a good display/controller for custom projects, Ive got mine running off a rPI, integrating with my own software. i think the main issue for open source projects is its quite expensive compared to other grids, so few look at it (past its use with Ableton)

push 1, i think when its used price drops a bit more, it will become a great custom controller for open source diy projects - its display is nice and bright off usb, and its really easy to program with sysex and midi… at times, i wish i hadn’t traded my push 1 in, and had kept it… i’ll probably get another.

3 Likes
#26

:exploding_head: I can’t let you leave that one hanging there. Please elaborate.

Did some quick research and stumbled on to this:

Anyone know of anyone developing for Push 2? Or, like…Push 2 + Ansible, anyone? Just throwing it out there.

#29

If I’d have thought there was a chance you’d see that, I would have changed the tone completely. (that was my first post on lines!!!)

My point was that, like many hardware controller producers, Akai have taken your ideas and re-produced them with major competitive advantages (for instance, like you say: a marketing department.)

the Grid is certainly superior for openness, the main reason I bought one.

Keep up the great work!!!

#30

oh Ive been doing this for quite a while, with various devices…

here is the one that I have running on the rPI with Push 2

its shown with the Organelle, as i wanted to show how parameters are reflected on both Organelle and push , but the same software runs on the rPI, so that you can control PD patches from Push2.
this is actually getting quite close to release now… after a complete re-write :slight_smile:

heres an example of me, doing something very similar (but with Axoloti) using the Push 1 (and the reason I miss my push1)

as I said, i think Push makes a great generic control surface due to having a big bright display, and also 11 encoders … which are mostly also touch sensitive.
the pads are pretty good too, and the various buttons, whilst having fixed labels, generally translate quite well to other musical contexts…as the labels are pretty generic really.

however, very different device to the monome, where the strength i think lies in having lots of pads in a smaller form factor, which for some applications makes much more sense.

#31

I’m borrowing a push2 for the christmas period to add support for it to Ctlra, a pretty nice and simple lib to work with hardware controllers. Not directly related to the monome ecosystem though.

Ctlra hardware library
#32

Great guys, now I’m gasing over a Push. Seems fun to play with, besides controlling ableton.

:see_no_evil:

#33

2 posts were split to a new topic: Ctrla hardware library

#34

Bit of a crappy picture, but for reference here a grid 128 next to the push 2. The push2 is a significantly larger device. Also something to consider :slightly_smiling_face:

grid128-push2
grid128-push2.jpg2160×1080 231 KB

2 Likes
#35

True, its also very heavy.

#36

is anyone using a push 1 or 2 with Bitwig (or Live)?

really tempted to buy a push 1 for quick clip recording/launching, mix duties, and another option for note input.

#37

I’m using a Push II with Live. It is a very cool and well integrated controller. To be honest, since I got my Grid 128, Push hasn’t been used all that much and I’m contemplating selling it to actually finance a second Grid or an Arc. As it has been discussed above, they’re very different units (Grid and Push). For me, the problem with Push is that it is not too good as a mixer and a bit too expenssive and big for a clip launcher. I close to never use it for mixing duties, because it is so much easier to just do that on the computer. And the interface doesn’t really allow you to have very hands on control as a «live mixer». Novation has some very affordable and well integrated units for these matters - with faders, sends etc. That being said, the Push can do a lot of things. The pads on Push II is super sensitive and smooth, very playable. I like using it to play out soft synths and even some sample stuff. The display is awesome and you can basically a whole project (at least in Live) without looking at your computer - though that is not something I personally strive for.

But yehh, maybe the Push I isn’t too expenssive these days? If you’re mostly after clip launching then Novation has some controllers I would’ve check out.

1 Like