What's the best stand alone hardware sequencer?

[chailight]

There is an example of something close to this in the rene8 max for live patch that had been posted here somewhere. Will see if I can find the thread but if you search for rene you should find it.

Would need to be adapted for use with other devices, but it might give some inspiration.

[rick_monster]

a very tired old roland MC50 was the main inspiration for my sguenz project. The thing I got off ebay few years back always had problems - intermittent buttons & scrollwheel, dying floppy drive, occasional random reboots (probably dry joint somewhere on pcb power - never checked inside to try and fix). Kind of liked the setup, and made some strange music with it before diving down a jazz guitar rabbit hole for years and disowning such silly electronic toys…

You can do some kind of limited looping with that mc50, but I’ve been dreaming for ages of a ‘hardware’ sequencer (i.e no screen, button interface) that works like a flexible looper a la boomerang, whilst allowing as much of the ‘composition’ abilities of the MC50 as possible without introducing menu-diving or a scroll-wheel (by version 0.1 feature-creep also spawned an idiosynchratic step-sequencer). Turns out this is a pretty worthy challenge, but I just last night got a warty early version of the software to run on power-up with an embedded linux device. Back to the future!

[zebra]

i’ll go ahead and say that the 251e has a really interesting model of rhythmic representation that i haven’t seen before or since. stage durations are just arbitrary rational numbers. really interesting loop system where you can nest loops and set different counters for begin and end points. very flexible trigger logic. classic DB interface that seems impossible at first but flows pretty naturally.

it’s not quite “standalone” but it could be. i don’t believe anyone has really dug into it properly yet, even several years on.

[jasonw22]

Just did some googling around and found a couple prospects:

mloop looks super simple and that sounds nice:
http://fuzzle.org/~petern/mloop.html

giada sounds super powerful, and I think it will work as a midi looper?

Giada - Your Hardcore Loop Machine

[rick_monster]

mloop looks super simple and that sounds nice:

won’t build on my machine… waf script looks a bit fusty - is the big binary blob at the end of waf normal!?

giada sounds super powerful, and I think it will work as a midi looper?

well it builds ok. Many important features missing at the moment (e.g swing/groove quantiser)
https://www.giadamusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1
interesting to testdrive a bit but may turn out no less of a project than what’s already done on my sguenz software - already have monome support, swing, ground-up design for headless, midi over bbb UART, even a fairly novel free looplength feature. Squarp also claim many interesting features such as euclidian rhythms, midi effects etc. Wonder how musically useful these are & how seamless is the core workflow - always conscious that quick-hit gimmicks sell better than solid core functionality…

hmmm! It also appears freewheeling is under active development again.

free-wheeling/freewheeling

Last time I tried using it, whatever version I built was an unusable bugfest. Certainly it sounds pretty spot-on & think (despite the slightly crazy docs) it functions as both regular & mid looper, with advanced features like varispeed. Should have another look at it over the weekend before reaching for the credit card…

[jasonw22]

is the big binary blob at the end of waf normal!?

maybe? no idea. Bummer it didn’t build. Looked nice and small from a distance.

I didn’t know freewheeling could do MIDI looping. I’ll have to check it out!

[rick_monster]

I didn’t know freewheeling could do MIDI looping

might be wrong about that - the docs are a bit ‘philosophical’!

[abalone]

imho 'the best stand alone hardware sequencer?
http://www.mpchunter.com/category/mpc-60/

[jasonw22]

Well, they certainly appear to be collectable!

[abalone]

right, and they sound great too,
even…

MPC 2000XL: Musical Instruments & Gear | eBay

if you want a flip screen, or you can go with the 2000-
it’s what I got
https://soundcloud.com/laura-alvarez-art/money

Amazon.com: Akai MPC 2000 Sampler - Sequencer: Musical Instruments

one time we had an mpc rodeo, 60, 3000, 2000
the sequencing seemed the same (all fantastic!)
12bit 60, 16bit 3000, 16/44.1 2000
the 60 made the kick sound great, the 3000 sounded like rap tracks you love ('cause they used it)
and the 2000 sounded like a cd…
I’m with it, though some I know say it’s gotta be a 3000

MPC 3000: Musical Instruments & Gear | eBay

[rick_monster]

Pretty glad I didn’t pull the trigger on a pyramid. Seems they have not solved one of the tricky software problems for a midi looper:

Oops, there was an error! | Squarp Instruments Forum

Obv with regular looper pedals doesn’t ruin performance if you hit a downbeat gesture just before hitting record - just cuts off the attack of first note a little bit. Is there any hardware or software midi looping solution which actually provides the following workflow?

1. play back a step-sequenced clave pattern e.g hat on 2 & 4, four-to-the-floor kick etc
2. hit record on the downbeat to start loop without ‘losing’ near-simultaneous midi presses
3. hit record again to loop the section

all desirable gestures breaking strict time sequence should play directly on loop start for a down-beat loop trigger, played in original pre-loop-start position for a pre-cued or wrapping loop.

[rick_monster]

spotted an mpc500 for cheap(ish) in one of the local pawn shops… So anyone owned one? Capable device for arranging/composing midi sequences or hobbled, crappy version of a ‘proper’ MPC?

Not too worried about sampling engine, effects etc just the sequencer workflow…

[abalone]

haven’t used one
but, when we saw the xx at the palladium
they used this and sounded great!
kinda like this I guess-
http://equipboard.com/pros/jamie-xx/akai-mpc-500
well, he’s playing it like @Galapagoose
no sequence
here’s a review-
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/akai-mpc500

random aside-
a few years back, I almost got one
(and would have)
but my 2000 woke up and flew with me to Hawaii to play a show in Honolulu Chinatown
so cats I know only think the roger linn ones are worth anything (sequence-wise, and other-wise)
akai changed some things starting with the 2000

[abalone]

more mpc talk…

one of the things that makes the mpc (all models, I believe) so cool for sequencing, is the 'note off feature
pressure sensitive pads, and
the note will only play for the duration that you hold the pad

it makes it easy to 'play a sequence, because you can make the sounds fit into the loop as it repeats/records

worth checking out, and maybe
this could be a new topic 'sequencing parameters +/-
-I’m also a 'parc fan, and it does something totally different and cool!

[shellfritsch]

i’ve heard the 500 is not so great - bad pads, weak outputs & and hobbled software. the 1000 seems like the best option in terms of price & flexibility. plus it can run JJOS - a greatly expanded operating system made by a mysterious ex-akai programmer. i haven’t used it but many swear by it. throw in some replacement fat pads & maybe an XL screen and you’re jammin’.

[rick_monster]

throw in some replacement fat pads & maybe an XL screen and you’re jammin’.

Of course pads are the wrong size and not at all cheap by the time you buy all the upgrades! Currently thinking one would be better off saving up another 500 bucks & plumping for the 2500 with JJOS…

hobbled software

Still wondering if the sequencer itself is totally anaemic, or mostly compromises in the sampling engine. Locally (but unethically) sourced mpc500 is just over a third of the price of the next cheapest hardware option - that being a new squarp pyramid. Finally sourced a decent midi controller & got round to fixing most of the stupid problems with my tired old midi jerryrig.

Light at the end of the tunnel!? feels like nearly back to working setup(s) & ready to jetison the useless bits on ebay…

[koam]

If you just want to do very basic MIDI sequencing the 500 is ok. But doing anything other than hitting record and bashing out some notes quickly becomes tedious/infuriating. Unless the portability is important to you I’d highly recommend any other MPC.

A 2500 with or without JJ is a world of luxury by comparison.

[rick_monster]

plus it can run JJOS - a greatly expanded operating system made by a mysterious ex-akai programmer. i haven’t used it but many swear by it. throw in some replacement fat pads & maybe an XL screen

So, different but related question - what’s the best JJOS for standalone hardware sequencing? JJOS2XL (small screen) or JJOS128XL (large screen)? What features (if any at this stage) are actually lost by ‘upgrading’ the screen?

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/

Seems like the mysterious JJ is just on the cusp of releasing 128xl v2.0, anyone famililar with the most recent JJOS offerings? Amazing and inspiring this guy is still working to perfect his opus after so many years.

From what I understand of MPC sequencing, seems like the ‘pattern’ feature (absent from most recent JJOS128XL) would greatly expand looper-like sequencing possibilities, though also very hard to understand the workflow/terminology without ever having owned one…
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/chart.htm

[ngwese]

waf script looks a bit fusty - is the big binary blob at the end of waf normal!?

Yes - it is normal. When the waf script is run the first time it decodes and decompresses that blob at the end to unpack its own support library into a directory called .waf-<version>-<hash>.

[rick_monster]

MPC1000+JJOS2XL + a couple nothing-special synths is way too much fun. 1 week in, already hitting some moderately serious sleep deprivation here…

And I’m only scratching the surface of JJOS - only feature I’ve used so far which is not in Akai’s OS is the arpeggiator. But make no mistake, even ignoring the sampler aspect for which the MPC is perhaps best known, this is a no-nonsense beast of a sequencer in terms of studio (i.e non-live). Miles ahead of anything I’ve ever tried and an incredible, versatile tool. Having said all that.

Usage so far has mainly been an endless 4-bar loop plodding along inside a single sequence in 4:4. Periodically get the wife/cat in to listen to something, mute/unmute a few tracks for drumbeat variations etc. This is exactly the ‘90s EDM’ workflow I was worried about falling into… I mean, having fallen into it, it’s not so bad down there after all - at least I’m finally doing something with my synth hoarde.

And a ‘quirk’ of this device is you can’t switch ‘sequences’ (i.e song sections) after overdubbing a part. For whatever reason it’s always necessary to hit stop for a second before getting back the ability to switch sequences. Who knows, this may be fixed in the coming update from JJ. Ah, the joys of proprietary software userspace.

But anyway, there are clearly some hacks one can use within a sequence order to break out of the 4-bar repeating flow. For example with JJOS2XL (dunno with stock Akai) you can change the loop points on the fly while the sequencer runs. I’ll report back on this aspect of the JJOS rabbithole, along with the more obscure aspects of JJOS, such as lines/patterns. Still don’t understand enough about these to comment, but seems like another way to expand out from the ‘obvious’ MPC workflow…