#380

My work laptop is a 2019 15" (last of the series) and while the fans are fairly quiet at low speeds, it seems like they’re always on and always audible. When I do any moderate work, they spin up to a level I would consider “too loud to record in the same room with”. I can’t compare it to the 16" as I haven’t used one personally, but I would definitely say the later model 15" laptops are what I would consider “fan happy”, definitely so compared to my 13".

Perhaps someone who has run the same workloads on a later 15" versus the 16" could chime in on the relative fan-happyness of the models, but from my perspective if the fan is an issue for you and the reports of the 16" put you off it, I wouldn’t think the 15" would be any consolation. And the keyboard is IMO crap so that’s certainly one reason to stay away from the 15". The new Air has a much improved keyboard by comparison.

#381

Also if that can be useful, I got to use a few different versions of the 15” through a series of replacements which allows me to compare their relative loudness. The one I currently own is a 2019 i9. It is generally decent. My workload is mostly Xcode, Qt creator, an unreasonable amount of Safari tabs (10-100), Ableton, and Max while only having the fans running hard occasionally. Most apps are fine, but some are problematic (Qt creator especially, which has a terribly nasty macOS specific performance issue / bug). I can run Ableton for a while quietly, but fans generally kick in after a while if I’m using a few tracks & effects (I don’t use plugins, only stock Ableton effects). The 2018 i7 and 2018 i9 I got to use for a few months were much worse than this, the latter being the worst. The fans would be quite audible when running a even a completely empty Ableton project.

Edit: I also remembered that the 2018 i9 benchmarked worse than the 2018 i7 for demanding multicore tasks (3D rendering using Blender Cycles) from my testing.

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#382

how about this one?

(kidding)

anyways, i continue to despise my 2016 MBP. the keyboard and screen are woefully under-engineered and have failed numerous times each. i refuse to pour any more money into it so it is relegated to a docked existence.

my partner and I share a couple of MBAs (2012 and 2013) which are perfectly acceptable for mobile work. (even fairly heavy xcode projects… though the shortcomings of xcode are another story, and i’ve migrated as many projects as possible to CMake, with Fastlane to manage code signing and deployment.)

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#383

They’re out of stock, though, augh!

#384

Why don’t you just sell it at a small loss and move on? The new Airs are excellent (and our 2019 continues to be a great household computer too) or you could trade down to a late-model 2015 or something if you’re absolutely allergic to the more recent stuff (which has improved a lot from the 2016 low point).

#385

as someone who has also had the unpleasant experience of owning a 2016 mpb, you have options.

apple will still fix keyboard issues for free. I think the cut-off is 4 year from purchase, but if they replace the keyboard, they also just replace the entire bottom of the machine. New battery, everything. same keyboard design (which sucks), but it’s something.

it won’t fix the screen issues, but it might be worth dealing with the apple store to make it happen.

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Apple/Mac issues: hardware, firmware, interfaces, etc
#386

i will certainly buy a newer Air the next time i really need to get new mac hardware. appreciate the suggestions in this thread. i wouldn’t downgrade because i’m happy with my older macs (5 of them in the house… 6?) and the only reason for upgrading is to use /test thunderbolt3 hardware. (necessary for some jobs.) selling at a (near-total) loss seems a little silly; it works fine as a (pretty fast) build server / recording device and so on.

i have repeatedly posted about the 2016 model because i really think it’s bad enough to warn people about. this is not an “i hate macs” statement. i think apple does a lot of things right and i’ve been happy to work closely with some of their teams on hearing accessibility issues (for example.)

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#387

It used to be so simple: after years, a MacBook Pro would die, or just be incapable of handling something new I was working on that required more oomph, and I’d replace it with the current iteration.
2016 was the first model that felt… hmmm… I don’t quite… trust this.
Then a full cup of hot coffee directly into the keyboard rendered my 2016 beyond repair, and I subsequently went through THREE 2018 machines, each restarting or shutting down constantly whenever almost anything was connected to a thunderbolt port. Apple finally acknowledged this was an irreparable bug impacting “some machines” but the best I ended up with was a fourth machine that only restarted a few times a week. For the first time since I started performing with laptops I no longer felt confident bringing one onstage or to a radio performance, and video / audio work just isn’t the same when you know it “could happen any moment”. Maybe I was just lucky with my previous machines.
The fan noise is also really bad - unless I stick with only one monitor (clamshell mode or just using the built in screen. I ended up with the i9 /Vega combo, and the graphics card may make this worse).
So now I’m looking at performance work again (albeit streaming in the short term) and getting sick of working on an unreliable machine. But I keep hearing these complaints about the fan noise on the 2020 / 16". And reports that while it’s far LESS common, the restart bug or hardware fault or whatever it is (peeps say its T2 related, but disabling everything connected with that does nothing on my 2018) still infects some units.
And it feels so stupid to spend thousands on a machine that MIGHT be reliable enough for live performance, but has MORE fan noise and is not really any more powerful in a real world sense than the one I have. (I already use a second eGPU for my color correction work so the more powerful graphics options aren’t really a plus). The screen and the actually usable keyboard are nice at least.
Maybe the ARM move will make MacBook pros as reliable as they once seemed to be. I hope so. I’m completely dependent on Mac-only software for workflows (not just music/video related) that took years to put together, and I just hate the feel of windows when I use it. (Linux I like, but the tools aren’t there for me on that platform either).
Just realize this unintentionally turned into a subjective rant. Sorry.
Maybe it’s better to carry an iMac in a case to gigs now? Is anyone considering that?

#388

Lot of mights and maybes there. No computer is perfect, and personally I would never gig reliant on just one, no matter what brand it was. I’d at least do what all the pros do and bring a second playback unit with a failover rig. The Mac Mini is basically a thermally upgraded version of the Macbook Pro, so there’s nought to be gained or lost there if you don’t like the laptop electronics. The T2 chip and all the other stuff is still there. I use one daily for studio work, no problems. In terms of form factor, two minis, a Radial or iConnectivity failover audio device, and related equipment would easily fit in 2U of rackspace so that’s pretty remarkably portable by gigging gear standards. You’d need some sort of screen or another laptop as a VNC remote to manage them, but small portable HDMI displays are not hard to come by. However, compared to the cost of two Airs, you’re also looking at a relatively more expensive outlay and more cabling.

1 Like
#389

Yeah it may indeed be time to accept the need for a backup in performance. Just feels so strange after 20+ years of completely computer-dependent live work. I had more issues with hardware synths than I did with any laptop live - windows (long ago) OR Mac.
Airs/minis aren’t really a backup option for me (even the i9 on the top spec’d 2018 has trouble with some of my current ZebraHZ and Plogue Bidule patches). I don’t use any playback / syncing of anything - it’s almost all live synthesis except for some PM stuff like pianoteq and granular/live collage from an ipad- so even stuff like the PlayAudio12 wouldn’t make the switch to a backup live any smoother - there’s just no time reference or clock to sync. It still means everything stops for a while. But I can always come up with some creative “emergency interstitial” stuff to do during the downtime.

But I swear, after the four-machine fiasco I went through with the last one, if I hear that sudden fan whir followed by non responsive trackpad followed by restart on a NEW Mac I might give up what I do and just take up the banjo.
(nothing against the banjo!)

I just hope Apple gets back to its former glory re reliability and usability, regardless of whether I lug an extra machine with me. 2016 really felt like a shift. Though even that one never crashed live (it just didn’t like my coffee!).

#390

Sounds like you might have to either move to a desktop or a beefy windows gaming machine, or adjust your projects to be a bit lighter.

#391

Oh I’m fine with higher-spec’d MacBookPros as far as CPU oomph for live performance. I occasionally have to reduce polyphony, but it’s workable. I just meant a MBA or i7 mini probably won’t cut it for a live backup in my particular case - it would need to be a second MBP, and probably an i9 like the restart-o-rama machine I have.

#392

As a new 2020 13" MacBook Pro user, and a long time banjo player, I can say I haven’t had reliability issues with my MacBook (yet, my last one, iMac 2011, lasted up till now and still runs. I just am now having a hard time as High Sierra is the latest OS I can run on it), AAAANNND I totally support you picking up the banjo!

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#393

I just found an old 2009 machine in a box.

Compared to my current (Early 2015) machine, the old machine’s keyboard is much more responsive (and all keys still work, the arrow keys all died on my current one).

Also the old machine’s display is much more saturated and generally pleasant to view. The 2015 display, no matter how I adjust it, has essentially the same properties as my phone (early 2019). Just really harsh and washed out colors no matter what I do.

Are any of these things better in 2020? Any hope? (I mean do keyboard and display at least meet the 2009 standards?)

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#394

My wife just got a new one. Huge improvement over 2015. Different from 2009.

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#395

Should mention that after I posted on the Turbo Boost Switcher website about my woes, someone from them sent me an email to explain that I should uninstall, install again. Which I had tried, and tried again, without better luck. Still nice of them to email.

#396

Not to throw in a whole new monkey into the equation, but…If I have no immediate urgent need, does it make sense to hold out for one of them new fancy pants ARM processor macs that should be coming? or are those more like 2 years out in reality?

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#397

Yes, very surprising and incredibly annoying. I mean, it’s ridiculous. I remember reading the review for the new 16" on The Verge, and they kept mentioning “improved thermals”. No idea what they could have meant by that.

I did recently update to MacOS 10.15.5 and it does feel like the fans take longer to kick in, and kick in less crazily. Of course it might be that like you, I’m just getting used to it. (I hope I’m not… I think.)

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#398

it’s entirely unclear what the update schedule will be. there’s talk of starting with a macbook, but that could be the mpb or it could be the tiny macbook model or it could even be the redesigned imac that’s coming.

it’s safe to say that if you have a particular model in mind, the update might be 1.5-2 years away.

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#399

Thanks for mentioning that update. I just updated and it does seem a lot quieter now!

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