#358

Useful for me, thanks

1 Like
#359

Looking at the two processor’s specs, not a huge amount of difference. If the cost is an issue for you, I’d suggest putting the money into at least 16GB of RAM instead. You’ll get far more utility out of that.

#360

Yeah, without a doubt, I would go for 16GB of RAM. Thanks for the input on the processors.

#361

and also @trickyflemming : you really have no fan issues?

I got the 16" as well, in january, maxed out. The fans start up from almost just the smallest thing. Is it because I opted for the full monty? My knowledge of how computers work is scant, but my probably wrong assumption would be the stronger the machine, the quicker and easier it does the task, and so the lesser the heat. But apparently not?

It does bother me, the fan noise, and how quickly it comes. I find it disappointing in such an expensive machine. Don’t know what a fix could be.

I upgraded from my 2012, then-maxed-out, MBP which I had kept in the same OS and which worked so well, never crashing, but I started to long for a faster machine when more ram and better processors became available. To get a machine with 16mb ram in 2012 was such a relief and pleasant surprise, how much quicker I could work with much heavier projects and so much less time waiting for computer (allowing more time for other things, also non-computer, one of the blessings of a fast machine). I had expected the next jump to be to 32mb and to be equally freeing, so when 64mb ram became available I could not even imagine what it would enable me to do (just as I think the advertising was hoping I would feel).

But maybe ram alone isn’t really what does it, and maybe my focus on ram is a leftover from olden times, when, at least as I remember it, it appeared to make all the difference. Maybe it never did.

I’m puzzled to have a machine with on paper so much power becoming warm so fast. But maybe the high specs is precisely what causes the heat. I hope there’s a fix. And insight is welcome.

Sorry to be writing about such unimportant things in such serious times. I think it’s because I now also spend more time in front of this computer than I did. Hope everyone is safe.

1 Like
#363

I have been using my old 2010-era MacBook Pro (minus battery) frequently, having brought it back to life last year despite it being “officially” (Apple) “Obsolete”. It is a pain in the neck to boot into a state of coherent functioning and frequently reboots itself when too many processing commands happen to occur but it runs Pigments 2, Analog Lab 4, and a cluster of other Arturia sw without too much trouble (cough). While I need a “real” battery from a “good” supplier, I have the continuous acquisition of synth modules to bear up and a new computer is what I really need. No way am I going with any IBM/Windows environment. Too many machines have been under my care to tip the scales away from Apple in a cage-match between the two. No, I dont rely on DAW. My 2 cents.

My point being: do your research and >avoid buying a Mac which features a battery glued to the case<. That insidious bug makes self-service damn near impossible. Taking it in to have the battery replaced then involves buying an entire bottom plate with a fresh battery, again glued in. Outside my pay grade.

#364

Fan issues have far more to do with what software you’re running than anything else. Most people are unaware that many applications these days are either “Electron” “apps” which are basically web browsers behind a thin layer of JS that pretends to be a native app, or they run on a core of Java. Both of these are horrifically inefficient uses of system resources. Chrome (the browser) is another horrible abuser of both RAM and CPU and is notorious for stealing tons of compute resources it doesn’t appear to need. My point is, unless you know that the software you’re running is highly efficient, your computer could appear to be doing “nothing” from your perspective and in fact be working it’s metaphorical ass off behind the scenes to run inefficient software. Depending on how much of this sort of software you run, how many system extensions you’ve installed or background apps, etc., your base compute load may in reality be far higher than you think it is or “should be”. Having a faster computer can, in some cases, even be “worse” than a slower one as it may trigger some software to engage more advanced (or sometimes just plain more wasteful) algorithms than if it detects that your system is slower or older, outweighing the advantages in your newer hardware (which are more marginal than the industry would like you to believe, also).

I run several macs with a wide variety of software. When I’m running the Java-based Eclipse IDE or Matlab software, my system fans will sometimes spin up doing the most basic of tasks or even nothing at all (from a user perspective). When I’m running the JS-based Atom editor, same thing. When I run optimized software like BBEdit, Ableton with extremely efficient plugins (Valhalla, Softube, etc) I can push the system remarkably hard before the fans even think about firing up.

So, in summary, there are so many factors that affect your system thermal load and most of them come down to what you’re really asking the computer to do and how efficient that code is, along with how many bits of code you’re really asking it to run at the same time, counting hidden, background tasks, system extensions/drivers which may be poorly written, etc.

The thermal performance of even my widely criticized 15" 2019 MBP is still fantastic with the right software on it, and while it can certainly be improved (the 16" shows a marked improvement, for instance) there will always in every brand of system be some thermal limit compromise somewhere in order to gain battery life/limit power consumption, increase performance, reduce size/thickness/weight/complexity/cost, etc. Treat it like any other ordinary limitation you’d run into (compute, memory, storage) and iteratively identify the causes in your specific situation. You’d be surprised how poorly some very popular software behaves on some systems!

8 Likes
#365

Thanks for your insight. I’m just running latest Ableton, often with only Abletons own instruments and effects. Apart from that I work a lot with Adobe stuff, Indesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, sometimes Premiere and/or After effects. It’s the same software I’ve always been using, albeit in earlier versions*, on the other/previous macs I’ve had. So I’m just comparing with that. But your post leaves me hopeful.

*And of course earlier versions of apple os.

#366

I’ve been using Activity Monitor out of curiously for the last couple days and one of the most surprising finds was that having Google Drive open in the background on Safari was using 650MB of RAM. Reaper was using only 150MB (no plugins, but still).

#367

On newer macbooks it’s probably your turbo boost kicking in, causing your temperature to rise and fans to kick in. I’m using Turbo Boost Switcher to almost permanently turn off the turbo boost and my fans rarely spin up (unless an app crashes and starts trashing. Also getting way more battery life out of my macbook sometimes up to 2h.

4 Likes
#368

It’s important to note that turbo boost, by itself, does not directly cause fan issues (fans are controlled by core, gpu, memory, and other temperature sensors internally), and since the processors are designed to always be running at some level of turbo boost when doing actual work (low levels of turbo boost do not create significantly increased levels of heat - it’s fairly linear), you’re giving up a massive amount of performance for this exchange. I don’t recommend it whatsoever unless you are really doing very little with your computer and/or need extreme battery life while only getting about 1/3rd of your CPUs best effort performance, sometimes less than that even.

For those of you with laptops as your main workstation, when you’re at a desk they can run cooler when you close the lid and use them exclusively with an external monitor. Some previous research showed that if you stand them on edge (fans up) they provide significantly better thermal performance than if they’re open. I don’t know if this is still true but if you want more performance but quieter behaviour, it’s worth trying.

Also, if you’re actively charging the battery while running the system, the heat the batteries and charging circuits generate will add to the CPU and other board temperatures, making your fans kick on sooner and faster. Waiting for it to cool down after a charging cycle will give reduced fan noise.

1 Like
#369

Thanks for this suggestion. I’d like to try it but I can’t get it to work, it won’t switch on (I have searched their forums and posted a query.) What it does give me is some monitoring of what’s going on. At CPU Loads of 5-6% (running four instances of Operator in Ableton, with some Ableton reverb on them) my mac runs a temprature of around 60 degrees Celsius, according to Turbo Boost Switcher, and the fans are loud. But, as @equipoise points out below, it seems strange to switch something off that is supposed to make the machine faster. At the same time, having to work with so much fan noise for a machine this expensive, also does not make any sense. Still curious to hear if anyone else have similar experiences with the 16” MBP.

#370

Received my MacBook Air 2020 on Monday and finally got around to finish configuring it this morning. Going to delve into using Ableton Live, but I imagine it will be fine considering I had no issues with my MacBook (not Air or Pro). I ended up upgrading to the i5 and 16GB of RAM.

The biggest and most noticeable difference - after using the butterfly keyboard for almost 3 years, this new keyboard feels absolutely glorious!

2 Likes
#371

Definitely interested in hearing your thoughts once you spend some time with Ableton running. The horror stories I’ve heard about the cooling system on the new Air has put me off big time, but it’s also hard to justify spending hundreds more on the new MBP that has marginally better specs.

#372

Regarding the “new MBP” here is a great article (the link is to a summary of the article which has additional information I totally agree with) which discusses your concern about the lower end of the MBP line compared to the Air, and which MBPs have performance differences that do justify the price:

1 Like
#373

Despite having twice the RAM and a 10th gen i5 vs an M3 processor, my new MacBook Air has significantly more freezes and crashes than my base model MacBook ever did. Still loving this keyboard though. It most commonly freezes when leaving the sleep state and using Safari.

E: My work bought me a laptop, so now that I’m not running the Air constantly it works with no issues. My issues were probably more a factor of running it 10-12 hours per day.

#374

My 16" Macbook Pro I use for work is also very loud. I have it closed & hooked to an external monitor, and on a stand to maximize airflow. There is some percentage of my work that is heavy rendering and many instances of plugins, but they often run loudly under “normal” operation as well.

My theory is that it was designed around the use case of Photoshop or web development, where one often listens to music while
working. Or with the assumption that anyone using it for more serious tasks would be using headphones.

At any rate, I am kind of shocked what a quality-of-life difference it makes to have a work computer that is for work and a personal computer that is for everything else. Since I have always been a freelancer, it’s the first time I’ve had this delineation and it’s kind of a “well, duh” realization.

#375

disappointing to hear this. Currently I’m looking for a Macbook to replace my 2013 13" MBP and can’t seem to decide

#376

this has a longer timeline, but it looks like the ARM-based Macbook lineup will begin either late this year or early next.

you would hope that a lot of the concerns people have over fan usage would be fixed once the switch happens. I can also say that my iPad Pro’s battery life is absurdly superior to my 13” MBP, which gives me hope.

3 Likes
#377

A new Air would be a nice step up, IMO. If you need serious grunt at home but don’t always need it on the go, you can do what I did and split the workload between a Mac Mini in the studio and a lower-spec Macbook Air or 13" on the road. Combo can cost less than a single loaded 16" and the Mini runs a LOT quieter under load.

2 Likes
#378

another good suggestion…trying to see if I can snag a used 15" MBP for a relatively good price which will be far superior to the specs on my 13" 2013 MBP and keep me going until the ARM laptops start rolling out.