#7

quick laptop pros for me:

  • I already own it
  • I’m pretty hard set on creating the tools that I use, so I don’t need to rely on tools by others except for inspiration. ideas are cross-platform.
  • don’t have to worry as much about running into processor power restrictions
  • I think all the boxes are limited to 2x2 audio I/O rn ?
  • multi-tracking is still pretty limited to laptops rn
  • I use it for all my visual/other art, kind of a one machine fits all thing for me which is cool
  • A/V performances
  • I can program on the machine, in theory that could become part of performance
  • monomes and other boxes are my interfaces regardless, so mouse and keyboard aren’t really a downside
  • a laptop is still a pretty necessary part of post-production for me, so it’s not like it isn’t going to take up space wherever I’m recording
  • I think it’s easy to avoid the bad headspace if you can think about your laptop as an art tool. that’s something I’ve adjusted to - It can be easier to get distracted. having multiple user accounts for work/art can help that.

having said that, if playing out ever becomes a serious thing for me I’ll probably get a norns. having less is always nice and laptops are big. I think I have a lot to improve in terms of my performance being engaging before what I have on stage becomes terribly important though.

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#8

For me, one big reason is headspace. Using a device that is for one removed from general internet access and also made for a specific purpose just focuses me in a way that a laptop does not. While I can see that software is also purpose-made, having one tangible thing for one purpose is what works for me. (Which is why I would love a hardware version of the OP-1 tape recorder, but that’s a discussion for another day.)
This may also be because I have terrible discipline but oh well.

Another reason is that for the most part, these small devices “just work”. I feel like since they are made and designed with some kind of additional hardware interaction in mind (midi controllers / other audio gear / sensors / whatever), these interactions work flawlessly compared to using a laptop and other hardware. I have very little time for making music these last few months so whenever I have to spend time dealing with technological issues or setup or whatever it just frustrates me to no end.

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#9

This has been echoed elsewhere on the forum, but for those of us who spend our “9 to 5s” at the laptop, it’s really nice to get away. Of course, I write this on my iPhone immediately after finishing up work for the day, right before I’m about to hop on Max/MSP…

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#10

I’m one of those and just don’t feel that need to switch, or not to the extent of contemplating going and buying something.

I’m writing this on my laptop while looping some stuff I’ve started for the latest Disquiet Junto, so I can certainly relate to the distraction comments!

#11

Funny, I’m new-ish here, and to the Norns scene too, and I was just asking the same question in a Norns related post --which is probably blasphemy here (LOL). I’m genuinely curious to the allure of it though, when you can accomplish the same stuff on a laptop or stand alone hardware. I think it has more to do with fetishism of boutique niche things that are outside of the mainstream than anything else. You see this all over the internet on every type of gear forum. Obviously, I fall victim to it as well, because I’m here, and I’ve spent the last year building a Eurorack system, but I try to avoid trends best I can and judge each tool on their merits, and not get sucked into the mystique.

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#12

But can you really? Others here can put this more astutely than me, but you may be able to come up with a similar product on, say, a Digitakt, a modular rig, or just in Ableton, but the process of getting there is going to be incredibly different. For me, making music isn’t wholly about the product (what, with my five monthly listeners?). I make music largely for the process and the process between these three couldn’t be more different. So, if your accomplishment is derived from what comes out of the speakers, sure. But if it’s informed also by what precedes this, then interface/platform/whatever really, truly matters.

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Approaching: norns
#13

I’d argue that the assumption that you can do the exact same thing on a laptop is flawed since process / interface / circumstance are all wholly different, no matter which machine you use. Also, I’m trying to interpret your comment regarding fetishism as not shitty but I’m having trouble, I’m assuming you meant it generally but it still reads as if you think noone can own a single-use music machine (whatever that may be) without it being fueled by gear fetishism? This kinda implies that owning a laptop and anything that it could replace is somehow wrong? But I think I may be too cynical when it comes to what people may mean when tone does not really translate well online. I’m genuinely curious how you meant it.

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#14

I have a friend that buys Thinkpad X220s in bulk, treating them as disposable special purpose computers.

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#15

I think the big-o difference here is whether yr interested in making tools or using tools made by others. If you’re the designer you can make the tool and the process work well for the interface that you have, but if you’re interested in using tools that are well designed by others the options in software may feel sub-par compared to hardware. I think this has a lot to do with the market of hardware compared to software. there’s also a lot more freedom for making tactile interfaces using hardware.

norns or organelle are kind of nice I guess for bridging the gap of personal design and well designed hardware interfaces by others.

1 Like
#16

I think you’re both on the same page. They said ‘accomplish’. The journey is different, yes.

#17

I think for me the allures are:

  • Aesthetics and design provide a different way to interact with technology which keeps our brains from going down same rabbit holes

  • The limitations on what can be done at any given time provide focus, freeing from the distraction of updates, notifications, or just checking emails or social media when you are at a blank slate

  • The open source community is full of constant and wonderful surprises that constantly push the platform forward

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#18

Part of why I’m here is the beauty of the instruments…

And the beauty of the community…

And the beauty of the music that these wonderful people are making with these amazing tools…

When you look closely at different people’s rigs, they are all at least a little different…

Which tells me that the tools are important but not as much as the inspiration at the heart of the interaction between the artists and their tools…

So, start somewhere and go towards whatever calls you! I’m convinced for myself that it’s better to start at all than to start “right.”

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#19

i only have one laptop and i use it for all my visual work - it’s too precious and critical to my livelihood to also bring to music shows.

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#20

A real tangible benefit to single-purpose computers is responsiveness. You are far more likely to get a snappier experience on a dedicated computer than a general purpose laptop. The bela board, for instance, is capable of latency times of around 1ms which is insanely responsive. Bare metal embedded systems such as the ones you’d find on eurorack systems can do even better than that, and those are technically single-purpose computers as well.

That being said, most of my sound work is done on a laptop. It doesn’t feel as nice, but it sure is very convenient.

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#22

When I start counting microprocessors in my house I tend to give up when I get into the dozens…

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#23

As others have stated, design and interfaces matter. Different objects inspire us to work differently and produce different results. Even if it is theoretically possible to get the same outcome from a laptop, to suggest that this makes it “better” than alternatives is to value results over process, and prioritize its power, versatility and convenience over the many other factors that can make an artistic tool enjoyable and inspiring to work with.

When someone criticizes a piece of equipment by stating they could do what it does with their computer, my thought is, “great, you should do that then.” No one is keeping score on who is most efficiently spending their money. The best tool is the one that you like the most.

I don’t mean to direct this at anyone specific here. I’ve just noticed it’s common for people to publicly criticize a piece of equipment by comparing it to a laptop, and I’ve never really understood the motivation in doing so.

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#24

cannot repeat this enough

i have had a couple smaller ~computer devices over the years and all of them have been about simply clearing the laptop from my vision and process, if only for part of the work. if i had the time and resources to invest in something more customizable like an aleph or norns this is exactly the appeal of such a thing to me. less to work with, maximizing function, less to carry to gigs!

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#25

I enjoy making music with samplers and synthesizers and sequencers on my laptop very much. But the way I work and the music I make with instruments that do similar things and are not inside my laptop become very different. I become different too. It’s harder but I enjoy it more. I could set up my laptop with one thing and hook a controller to it and decide to not look, but I would still look. I don’t know when a computer goes from being more (or all) instrument or more (or all) laptop. But I do feel the objectness (sorry that’s a terrible word) of objects very much when I interact with them. I don’t mean to derange the thread but I remember someone talking about Whitehead once, saying “I prehend the cup, but the cup also prehends me.”

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#26

in a way, it can be similar
to a drum carpet
-defining
physical and psychic space
on stage
:slight_smile:

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#27

Other posters have done a good job giving the pros for using a laptop, so I guess I’ll touch on the cons.

The main things I hate about “all purpose computers” (in a descriptive sense, because after all by definition any computer is an all purpose computer) are:

  1. my laptop and the software on it constantly want to update themselves. It would be fine if that only fixed bugs or added new features without removing old ones; but in practice, new bugs get introduced, compatibility with older formats gets lost, features get removed or broken, etc. And that’s not mentioning the software that bugs me about updating AND also wants to charge me for the upgrade.

  2. my laptop gets more unusable year by year, mostly because software engineers keep adding abstraction layers that slow everything down (but make things easier for them; understandable enough). If your goal is to get a character on the screen to display as fast as possible after you’ve pressed a key, then the best computer you can get is an Apple II. How sad is that?!

  3. my laptop also becomes less and less understandable every year because every software manufacturer wants to keep my data for themselves and present it in obscure ways that their incompetent designers thought were good ideas. Once upon a time, every piece of software stored its data in a fairly easy to retrieve way, that made it possible to inspect it/transform it for another piece of software/etc. Now many computing systems don’t let the end user view the files on their drive anymore, and you can forget about exporting it to use it with other software.

  4. A side effect of 2) is that one needs to upgrade their machine every few years to keep doing the same thing that worked just fine on a laptop that is now unusable (and forget about replacing just the components that need upgrading/replacing). We now have a pretty solid sense of how fucked the planet is; should we really be keeping on stripping rare metals from the earth and releasing carbon in the atmosphere just to display webpages that take 100% CPU to display ads with HD video and parallax? There are uncountable discarded laptops that one can acquire for $20 on eBay that would be totally usable today if efforts were made in making software more efficient year over year. I have a 2009 netbook in my bag right now running a customized ArchLinux (because that’s what you have to do), and it can still play 1080p videos totally fine, lets me write text/code, listen to music, edit photos, etc. The main thing that doesn’t work on it is the web. In 2009 it could load my bank’s website just fine; today, the page is too sluggish to use. No matter that the operations I do on my bank’s website are literally the exact same as I did in 2009 (view numbers, type in numbers). This is just completely bonkers!

This sad state of affairs means that I am all for single purpose computers - and certainly not just for music! I want single purpose computers for every creative activity. Video editing, music making, typesetting, web browsing, you name it. The more isolated a computer is, the less access it has to my data, the fewer things the manufacturer of that computer can do to introduce their shitty ideas of what “user experience” is into my life, the better. None of the issues above have shown up when I’ve used say a dedicated piece of synth hardware.

George R R Martin, one of the most successful contemporary writers, keeps an old DOS machine running WordStar 4.0 because he feels that that’s the tool that best gets out of his way and lets him focus on his work. He has it all figured out. Mainstream software & hardware in 2019 is manipulative, user hostile, sluggish, lacking in features that were available 20 years ago, terrible for the environment, and just can’t (and shouldn’t!) be trusted.

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