Yep, you’re completely right. Editing a previously made patch would be really bad. I’d rather stick to the dumb cables and embrace the uniqueness of every patch

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Perhaps the solution is computer vision and robotic arms haha

Sometimes I wish Discourse had a :smiley: button.

You are right. In X-Bay we call this a sub-matrix. The first X-mod modules which use such a sub matrix is designed. It has 8 VCA’s, 6 summers and an inverter. This module interconnects several modules from the ‘MiniMoog Setup Plus’ connected to the main matrix. It is added to indeed save channels of the main matrix. A 32x32 matrix has I2C communication lines and 4 Chip Select lines to serve steering the sub matrices. Another module which will take use of a sub matrix will be a multi-mode VCF.

@simondemeule: Yes, that could be a nice way to use X-Bay. And possible too when a face is add and the modules are wired up to the controls on the face. In my module design for X-Bay I already have designed headers that would make this possible. Although I, at first instance, did this to also have the boards serve as a rack module for a modular system, your suggestion to combine it is a good one.

Maybe it looks like that when you only look to each card at its own but each modules has all the CV’s it needs. By using a VCAx8 card with sub matrix and mixers in combination with them, it becomes very versatile. I.g mixing an envelope generator with a LFO signal to feed into any of the CV inputs of a module and being able to set the depth of those sources and/or also modulate them.
The amount of modules is limited to start with but, once we will succeed many more modules are to come and designer rules will be outlined for other module designers and the DIY world.

To jasonw22 and others: I got the message that I’m not allowed to place more than 3 comments because I’m new here. That make it a little hard to respond to the questions, critics and suggestions.

One answer I had ready and post it now in this edit:

That’s is indeed what’s going on here. The SM010 Matrixarchate most likely also uses an Analog Devices matrix chip. They use a single 16x8, we the 16x16 in a multiple cascading configuration to achieve a larger matrix.

“” jansonw22 I think some of the ideas you are working with here are pretty unique and maybe some of us are having a little trouble grokking the vision. Would you mind backing up a little and telling us about the motivations for the project and the types of problems it manages to solve in new ways?"

Let me first say that the Kick Starter gets a lot of criticism about being not very clear. I think that is true.
In essence it is an analogue matrix connected to a module board for any module connecting to the matrix and a 32 channel DAC card. The DAC card and the matrix can be steered by a HTML based application to set the matrix connections, the DAC channels and interfaces like a Keyboard. It depends what a user likes to achieve to have certain modules (X-mods) required to patch in. The vision is to create a bridge between the modular world and vintage fixed synthesizers and other gear like that. To be more portable with an in-board modular set (inside the X-Bay case) to have presets to recall instantly. It never will replace the full extend of a large modular system and the joy of a Dr. Frankenstein with all those patch cables. Nonetheless, it gives the opportunity to run sessions with a set of modules (in or out the X-Bay case), store and recall complex patches to make a production go more smoothly. Even when not all parameters of an external connected modular can be patched to the X-Bay matrix, still one can switch instantly a patch of for example 32 ins and 32 outs (or more). When it comes to modular systems with all those patch cables I do not see it as a replacement. It is a bridge to fulfil certain gaps.

“Edit: is it wrong to think of something like the Behringer X32 as the nearest mass market competitor?”
The X32 is a mixer and although X-Bay could be transformed into a mixer this would be foolish to do so.

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@marcmarc thanks for joining the discussion!

I think some of the ideas you are working with here are pretty unique and maybe some of us are having a little trouble grokking the vision. Would you mind backing up a little and telling us about the motivations for the project and the types of problems it manages to solve in new ways?

Edit: is it wrong to think of something like the Behringer X32 as the nearest mass market competitor?

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Just to be clear–those patch cables aren’t a comedic luxury, they represent an ergonomic and comprehensible workflow for a lot of musicians.

What about one-to-many, many-to-one relationships between module connections? Does the system support mixing signals when two or more connections are made to a specific endpoint?

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I think one of the problems you have is the KS model…
the usual ‘reward’ model that backers are used to , is you back one reward , which comes with X.
but your reward structure, implies you expect users to back multiple rewards to build up the system they want (which I thought was not even possible)

so Id recommend, you post something about how backers need to back rewards to get the system they want.

also, it took me about 15 minutes (possibly more) to work out what it would cost to get the minimoog system you talk about - whilst Id agree if I’m going to spend 2k that’s not unreasonable as part of research. I think many will just not bother, because then don’t know if you in the ballpark of 1k or 10k.

the other thing is… you say this digital implementation is more cost effective, but when you price up your system, it doesn’t seem to be … i.e. getting the same modules for a eurorack system (ajh spring to mind) plus a case/power I don’t think would be any less expensive.
(so then its a trade off of physical control over software/recall, but that’s not the argument you make)

I actually genuinely like the idea, I’m not actually hung up on a physical interface, I can see benefits either way… but like others, I’m a bit confused about the scalability and cost arguments.

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First time I’ve ever seen a reply above the post it was replying to… confusing!

@marcmarc I think there are some really interesting ideas here, but I fear it’s just not coming across the way you might be hoping.

Time travel? For me it was the first time that I could not post more than 3 comments so I had to improvise :wink:

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Oh weird. Discourse (the forum software), always with the helping! :wink: